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Evidence · Study critique

A well-designed study with a badly written abstract

RC
r.coelhoTL2 Moderator27 Mar 2025#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: A well-designed study with a badly written abstract Everything below is what sits behind that.

Comparing SCALE (N Engl J Med, 2015) with LEADER (N Engl J Med, 2016) and finding the comparison harder than it looks.

Different populations, different durations, different endpoints defined slightly differently, and in one case a different estimand. People compare the headline percentages anyway, including me until recently.

Is there a defensible way to put these side by side, or is the honest answer that there is not and we should stop?

26 likes 16mo
MI
m.ilungaTL2 Moderator29 Mar 2025#2

Choosing the worst interpretation: "The confidence interval includes a harmful effect" is true if the CI goes from -1 to +5. But assuming the worst-case scenario is not how you use the evidence. The point estimate and the precision both matter.

28 likes 16mo
CB
careful_beginnerTL1Member30 Mar 2025#3
r.coelho, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: A well-designed study with a badly written abstract Everything below is what sits behind that. Comparing SCALE ( N Engl J Med , 2015) with LEADER ( N Engl J Med , 2016) and finding the comparison harder than it looks. Different populations, different durations, different endpoints defined… Go to post

Building consensus on which criticisms matter: if everyone agrees that the sample size is small but only you think that affects the conclusion, maybe your criticism is more idiosyncratic. That does not make it wrong but it is worth noticing.

0 likes in reply to #1 16mo
MR
m.ramosTL2 Moderator31 Mar 2025#4

I read the opening post twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Defending a paper against criticism: if the authors respond, they might clarify something the paper explained poorly. Their response might also miss your point. Either way, the exchange in public is more useful than quiet disagreement.

5 likes 16mo
PN
priorauth_notesTL2Regular1 Apr 2025 · edited#5

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

20 likes 16mo
MK
m.kjaerTL2 Moderator2 Apr 2025#6

Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for.

0 likes 16mo
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular2 Apr 2025#7
m.ramos, post #4: I read the opening post twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Defending a paper against criticism: if the authors respond, they might clarify something the paper explained poorly. Their response might also miss your point. Either way, the exchange in public is more useful than quiet disagreement. Go to post

Picking up post #4: that is the part I would want checked first.

Publication bias: a single published positive trial is weaker evidence than multiple published trials with consistent results. Asking whether there are unpublished negative trials is a fair critical question.

2 likes in reply to #4 16mo
EM
e.mbekiTL2 Moderator3 Apr 2025#8
m.kjaer, post #6: Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for. Go to post

Coming back to post #6, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

8 likes in reply to #6 16mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular4 Apr 2025#9

post #8 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Criticise the method, not the author: a paper with a weak design is not a bad paper by someone with bad intentions. It is a paper that answers a limited question. Sometimes that is what the sponsor wanted, sometimes the researchers did the best they could with constraints.

5 likes 16mo
NS
n.serranoTL2 Moderator5 Apr 2025#10

Worth separating two things that post #6 runs together.

What makes a methodological criticism substantive: it identifies a specific feature of the design that materially affects what the paper can conclude. "Small sample size" alone is weak. "Small sample size for a rare outcome, so the confidence interval is wide" is stronger.

15 likes 16mo
AA
an.adeyemiTL2 Moderator6 Apr 2025#11

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

5 likes 16mo
ES
e.silvaTL2 Moderator6 Apr 2025#12

Bias towards the null and bias away from the null: different criticisms have different directions. Differential dropout might bias away from null; conservative statistical analysis might bias toward null.

0 likes 16mo
LF
l.ferreiraTL2 Moderator7 Apr 2025 · edited#13
m.kjaer, post #6: Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #9 runs together.

Generalisability: do the inclusion/exclusion criteria narrow the population so much that results do not apply to real people asking about it? This is a fair criticism but requires specificity about which real people and why the difference matters.

0 likes in reply to #6 16mo
HK
h.koodziejTL2Member8 Apr 2025#14
m.ramos, post #4: I read the opening post twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Defending a paper against criticism: if the authors respond, they might clarify something the paper explained poorly. Their response might also miss your point. Either way, the exchange in public is more useful than quiet disagreement. Go to post

post #13 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

21 likes in reply to #4 16mo
EM
e.mwangiTL2 Moderator8 Apr 2025#15

Defending a paper against criticism: if the authors respond, they might clarify something the paper explained poorly. Their response might also miss your point. Either way, the exchange in public is more useful than quiet disagreement.

9 likes 16mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular9 Apr 2025#16

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

2 likes 16mo
HF
h.fonsecaTL210 Apr 2025#17
NB
n.bridgewaterTL2Member10 Apr 2025#18

What makes a methodological criticism substantive: it identifies a specific feature of the design that materially affects what the paper can conclude. "Small sample size" alone is weak. "Small sample size for a rare outcome, so the confidence interval is wide" is stronger.

28 likes 16mo
PF
p.friskTL2 Moderator11 Apr 2025#19

Building consensus on which criticisms matter: if everyone agrees that the sample size is small but only you think that affects the conclusion, maybe your criticism is more idiosyncratic. That does not make it wrong but it is worth noticing.

1 like 16mo
VM
v.milanoviTL312 Apr 2025#20
MY
m.yildizTL2 Moderator12 Apr 2025#21

This follows post #18 rather than contradicting it.

Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for.

14 likes 16mo
KF
k.farrugiaTL3Regular13 Apr 2025#22
e.silva, post #12: Bias towards the null and bias away from the null: different criticisms have different directions. Differential dropout might bias away from null; conservative statistical analysis might bias toward null. Go to post

I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

29 likes in reply to #12 15mo
RF
ro.friskTL2 Moderator14 Apr 2025#23
v.milanovi, post #20: This follows post #17 rather than contradicting it. Generalisability: do the inclusion/exclusion criteria narrow the population so much that results do not apply to real people asking about it? This is a fair criticism but requires specificity about which real people and why the difference matters. Go to post

Bias towards the null and bias away from the null: different criticisms have different directions. Differential dropout might bias away from null; conservative statistical analysis might bias toward null.

0 likes in reply to #20 15mo
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular14 Apr 2025#24

Publication bias: a single published positive trial is weaker evidence than multiple published trials with consistent results. Asking whether there are unpublished negative trials is a fair critical question.

5 likes 15mo
ZN
z.nakamuraTL2 Moderator15 Apr 2025#25

Picking up post #22: that is the part I would want checked first.

Choosing the worst interpretation: "The confidence interval includes a harmful effect" is true if the CI goes from -1 to +5. But assuming the worst-case scenario is not how you use the evidence. The point estimate and the precision both matter.

21 likes 15mo
EM
e.mikkelsenTL2Member15 Apr 2025#26

When you change your mind: if a reply convinces you that your criticism was not well-founded, say so plainly. The critique might still be real but smaller than you originally thought. That is not a failure — it is how discussion works.

0 likes 15mo
RO
r.oyelaranTL2 Moderator16 Apr 2025#27
e.mikkelsen, post #26: When you change your mind: if a reply convinces you that your criticism was not well-founded, say so plainly. The critique might still be real but smaller than you originally thought. That is not a failure — it is how discussion works. Go to post

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

2 likes in reply to #26 15mo
RT
r.torrenceTL2Member17 Apr 2025 · edited#28

Choosing the worst interpretation: "The confidence interval includes a harmful effect" is true if the CI goes from -1 to +5. But assuming the worst-case scenario is not how you use the evidence. The point estimate and the precision both matter.

9 likes 15mo
EK
e.krastevTL2 Moderator17 Apr 2025#29

Generalisability: do the inclusion/exclusion criteria narrow the population so much that results do not apply to real people asking about it? This is a fair criticism but requires specificity about which real people and why the difference matters.

28 likes 15mo
M
MSaarinenTL3Regular18 Apr 2025#30

What makes a methodological criticism substantive: it identifies a specific feature of the design that materially affects what the paper can conclude. "Small sample size" alone is weak. "Small sample size for a rare outcome, so the confidence interval is wide" is stronger.

0 likes 15mo