What the published dose-response for semaglutide actually looks like above 2.4 mg — a second dataset

Asking directly, because I could not find a straight answer: What the published dose-response for semaglutide actually looks like above 2.4 mg — a second dataset

Session topic: SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med, 2022). Please read it before posting; the discussion is much better when everyone has.

The question I would like us to start with is what the trial set out to estimate, rather than what it found. Once that is on the table we can talk about whether the design could have answered it, and only then about the numbers.

Specific things I would like covered: the population and how far it generalises, how discontinuation was handled, whether the comparator was a fair one, and what the absolute rather than relative effect looks like.

I will summarise at the end and the summary will feed the relevant digest page.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

post #2 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The STEP programme populations were selected: enrollment criteria required baseline body mass index over 30, no recent blood pressure crisis, no recent retinopathy, no renal disease at the time. Applying results from that population to someone well outside it is an extrapolation and should be called one.

On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Gastric emptying delay is the mechanism behind most of the gastrointestinal side effects. Slowing the stomach empties it feeds less food into the intestines at a time, which is part of the satiety mechanism but is also why nausea is dose-dependent and titration-dependent.

The C-cell question: semaglutide triggered medullary thyroid carcinoma in rodent toxicology studies. A signal in rodents does not automatically appear in humans, but it is the reason the compound is contraindicated in people with personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2.

post #6 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Is there a ceiling dose beyond which the effect plateaus? The trials did not study that because they stopped at 2.4 mg. Some people report trying higher doses, but trial data is absent and off-label dosing enters territory this site does not advise on.

The 165 to 184 hour range: that is roughly 7 to 7.6 days, which is why the weekly schedule works. Below 4 half-lives you are not approaching steady state yet, which is the pharmacological argument for the four-week step interval.

The mass figure differs between sources because of how the different entities report it. The monoisotopic mass of the bare peptide is one number; the mass including the acylation is another. Different sources emphasise different details.

Coming back to post #8, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

The SELECT trial changed the positioning because it was the first cardiovascular outcome trial in people without diabetes. That decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glycaemic control, which is why it mattered beyond its own numbers.

Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the comparison, not a confounding variable to be removed.

post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The opalescent appearance in semaglutide solutions is occasionally noted and the mechanism is unclear. It does not appear to correlate with product failure in practice. Visible particles or frank cloudiness is different and would be reason to contact the supplier.

Coming back to post #11, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

On alcohol: the labelling does not contraindicate it, but it raises gastric irritation risk and semaglutide already does that. There is no published interaction study and the conservative position is to limit it if you are titrating or if gastrointestinal symptoms are troublesome.