The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Analytics · Mass spectrometry

What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not

JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular10 Feb 2025#1

What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked.

Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked.

semaglutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4113.6 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply charged series rather than the intact singly charged ion, so for the doubly charged species I calculate (4113.6 + 2 x 1.00728) / 2, and for the triply charged the analogous expression.

The observed values in the report sit within a few ppm of those. My question is what that actually establishes, because I have seen people treat a mass match as a purity result and I do not think it is one.

2 likes 18mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular20 Feb 2025#2

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

6 likes 17mo
SO
s.oyelaranTL2 Moderator28 Feb 2025#3

This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

22 likes 17mo
O
OTeixeiraTL3Regular6 Mar 2025#4

I read post #3 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

0 likes 17mo
AK
ar.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator12 Mar 2025#5

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

3 likes 17mo
K
KStephanopoulosTL3Regular18 Mar 2025#6
j.vandermolen, post #1: What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked. semaglutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4113.6 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply… Go to post

On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

10 likes in reply to #1 16mo
SV
s.vogelTL2 Moderator24 Mar 2025#7

Picking up post #4: that is the part I would want checked first.

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

30 likes 16mo
EM
endpoint_marginTL2Member29 Mar 2025 · edited#8

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

0 likes 16mo
PF
p.fontaineTL2 Moderator3 Apr 2025#9
ar.kravchenko, post #5: Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass. Go to post

post #8 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

5 likes in reply to #5 16mo
CI
citation_indexTL2Member8 Apr 2025#10

Worth separating two things that post #6 runs together.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

15 likes 16mo
AK
ak.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator13 Apr 2025#11

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

14 likes 15mo
IT
integrator_traceTL2Member18 Apr 2025#12

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

5 likes 15mo
NK
n.kirchnerTL2 Moderator22 Apr 2025#13
j.vandermolen, post #1: What a 2 ppm match establishes, and what it does not — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked. semaglutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4113.6 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply… Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #9 runs together.

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes in reply to #1 15mo
AS
a.schaefferTL2Member27 Apr 2025#14
ak.kravchenko, post #11: Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak. Go to post

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

0 likes in reply to #11 15mo
HK
h.kimaniTL2 Moderator2 May 2025 · edited#15

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

20 likes 15mo
B
BDraganovTL2Member6 May 2025#16

Picking up post #13: that is the part I would want checked first.

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

9 likes 15mo
TM
t.marchettiTL2 Moderator10 May 2025#17
s.oyelaran, post #3: This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it. Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size. Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

2 likes in reply to #3 15mo
HA
h.almeidaTL2Member15 May 2025#18

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

0 likes 14mo
EM
e.mwangiTL2 Moderator19 May 2025#19

I read post #17 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

28 likes 14mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular23 May 2025#20

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

13 likes 14mo
NL
n.lehtinenTL2 Moderator27 May 2025#21

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

4 likes 14mo
AI
a.ibarraTL2 Moderator1 Jun 2025#22

I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

12 likes 14mo
NR
n.rahimiTL2 Moderator5 Jun 2025#23
a.ibarra, post #22: I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means Go to post

post #22 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

0 likes in reply to #22 14mo
LD
l.dziedzicTL2 Moderator9 Jun 2025#24

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

0 likes 14mo
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist13 Jun 2025#25

Picking up post #22: that is the part I would want checked first.

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

7 likes 13mo
HV
h.vargaTL2 Moderator17 Jun 2025 · edited#26

Coming back to post #24, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

18 likes 13mo
K
KLindqvistTL421 Jun 2025#27
CT
c.tullochTL2 Moderator25 Jun 2025#28
endpoint_margin, post #8: Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means Go to post

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

1 like in reply to #8 13mo
SA
s.achebeTL2 Moderator28 Jun 2025#29

This follows post #26 rather than contradicting it.

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

0 likes 13mo
K
KnowltonTL3Regular2 Jul 2025#30
d.oyelaran, post #25: Picking up post #22: that is the part I would want checked first. Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

4 likes in reply to #25 13mo