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Compounds · Repair & healing peptides · continued

Reading a preclinical wound-healing model and its relevance to a human tendon posts 151–161

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

WP
weekly_pinTL2Regular26 Nov 2024#151

post #150 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Oral versus injected administration claims for BPC-157: the preclinical work studied injection. Oral claims are common in supplier marketing and poorly supported by published evidence. If you are comparing orality between compounds, that is a distinction worth noting.

8 likes 20mo
AD
a.delgadoTL2 Moderator26 Nov 2024#152

Reading a preclinical wound-healing model: the model shows whether a mechanism is plausible in a specific context. It does not show magnitude of effect in humans, does not show safety profile in humans, and does not show whether the effect survives in a more complex biological system. That is not a criticism of preclinical work — it is what preclinical work is for.

20 likes 20mo
MH
m.haddadTL2Regular26 Nov 2024#153

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes 20mo
KM
k.marchandTL2 Moderator26 Nov 2024#154
taper_table, post #83: What would change the position on repair peptides: adequately powered, published, peer-reviewed randomised controlled human trials with pre-specified outcomes. That is the standard applied to every other therapeutic claim on this site and it is the standard applied here. Go to post

TB-500 is usually the 7-residue actin-binding fragment of thymosin beta-4, not the full 43-residue protein. The two are routinely conflated in supplier documentation and in the literature. Evidence about the full protein does not automatically apply to the fragment.

2 likes in reply to #83 20mo
TH
TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club26 Nov 2024#155

The absence of adequately powered published randomised human trials is the central fact about BPC-157. This site states that plainly rather than hedging. Mechanistic plausibility does not substitute for it.

13 likes 20mo
HL
h.lindqvistTL2 Moderator26 Nov 2024 · edited#156

Why plausible mechanism is not evidence of effect: a mechanism that is chemically or biologically plausible can fail in practice for dozens of reasons — bioavailability, off-target effects, metabolism, clearance, or simply that the mechanism does not do what the theory predicts in a living system. Plausibility is necessary for hope but not sufficient for evidence.

27 likes 20mo
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appeals_deskTL3Regular26 Nov 2024#157
ro.frisk, post #34: For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

Stability of BPC-157 in solution: what has been measured in published work covers specific formulations under specific conditions. Extrapolating to a reconstituted preparation in a different diluent at a different concentration is an extrapolation, acknowledged as one.

0 likes in reply to #34 20mo
SA
s.adebayoTL2 Moderator26 Nov 2024#158
s.achebe, post #69: post #68 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

Coming back to post #156, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

4 likes in reply to #69 20mo
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chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist27 Nov 2024#159
e.mensa, post #88: TB-500 is usually the 7-residue actin-binding fragment of thymosin beta-4, not the full 43-residue protein. The two are routinely conflated in supplier documentation and in the literature. Evidence about the full protein does not automatically apply to the fragment. Go to post

The distinction between "no evidence it works" and "evidence it does not work": we have the first for these compounds. That is genuinely different from the second and the distinction matters, but it also means treatment plans based on these compounds are being built on theoretical grounds, not empirical ones.

2 likes in reply to #88 20mo
TD
t.dumitruTL2 Moderator27 Nov 2024#160

BPC-157: the preclinical literature is extensive, mostly from a small number of research groups, and reports effects across a wide range of injury models. The breadth of reported effects is itself worth noting — a compound that improves outcomes in tendon, muscle, gut, nerve and bone through a single mechanism would be remarkable, and remarkable claims deserve proportionate scrutiny.

9 likes 20mo
II
i.ilungaTL2 Moderator27 Nov 2024#161

On post #157 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

What would change the position on repair peptides: adequately powered, published, peer-reviewed randomised controlled human trials with pre-specified outcomes. That is the standard applied to every other therapeutic claim on this site and it is the standard applied here.

22 likes 20mo
This topic was closed 30 days after the last reply. Closing is automatic for quiet topics so that a settled answer does not collect new questions underneath it. If you have a follow-up, open a new topic and link back to this one — that keeps both readable and gives your question its own title.

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