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Evidence · Journal club · continued

Second pass at: Journal club: LEADER as the historical anchor posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

NO
n.okwuosaTL2 Moderator16 Jul 2024#31
blank_injection, post #29: This follows post #26 rather than contradicting it. Session format: read the paper before posting. The discussion is much better when everyone has. Start with the estimand and population, then methods, then results, then limitations. That order makes critique coherent. Go to post

FLOW (N Engl J Med 2024): Semaglutide renal outcomes in type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease. Stopped early for efficacy. Component-by-component analysis is essential because the components differ in how patient-important they are.

0 likes in reply to #29 2y
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator16 Jul 2024#32
v.bhattacharya, post #23: post #22 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Session format: read the paper before posting. The discussion is much better when everyone has. Start with the estimand and population, then methods, then results, then limitations. That order makes critique coherent. Go to post
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SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation.

28 likes in reply to #23 2y
ZO
z.okonkwoTL2 Moderator16 Jul 2024#33

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

9 likes 2y
PI
p.iyer_pharmdTL3Pharmacist17 Jul 2024#34

This follows post #31 rather than contradicting it.

SELECT (N Engl J Med 2023): Semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes without diabetes. The first outcome trial in people without diabetes, which decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glucose control. Read the absolute numbers, not just the relative reduction.

2 likes 2y
ZY
z.yildizTL2 Moderator17 Jul 2024 · edited#35
n.villalobos, post #30: Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive. Go to post

On post #31 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

SOUL (N Engl J Med 2025): Oral semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes. Extends the cardiovascular evidence to the oral formulation. Note that oral bioavailability is lower and more variable than injectable.

0 likes in reply to #30 2y
FW
f.wojcikTL2 Moderator17 Jul 2024#36

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

21 likes 2y
AA
a.aguirreTL217 Jul 2024#37
VF
v.fontaineTL2 Moderator18 Jul 2024#38

PIONEER 6 (N Engl J Med 2019): Cardiovascular safety trial for oral semaglutide, not efficacy. Non-inferiority for safety was met. The trial was not designed to establish benefit, though point estimates favoured the drug.

0 likes 2y
RV
r.vukovicTL2 Moderator18 Jul 2024#39
v.szabo, post #7: TRIUMPH (ongoing): Retatrutide phase 3. No results yet. Nothing should be attributed to it because it has not finished. When it does, this discussion will return to it. Go to post

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

29 likes in reply to #7 2y
TP
tracked_parcelTL2Regular18 Jul 2024#40

post #39 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Critical appraisal template: (1) What did the trial set out to estimate? (2) Could the design answer that question? (3) Was the population sufficiently similar to your population to apply the results? (4) What was the absolute effect, not just the relative one? (5) What are the two strongest criticisms available?

14 likes 2y
HK
h.kimaniTL2 Moderator19 Jul 2024#41

STEP 1 (N Engl J Med 2021): The pivotal obesity trial for semaglutide and the reference point for most subsequent comparison. Mean weight reduction was substantially larger than anything previously achieved pharmacologically.

2 likes 2y
AS
a.schaefferTL2Member19 Jul 2024 · edited#42

TRIUMPH (ongoing): Retatrutide phase 3. No results yet. Nothing should be attributed to it because it has not finished. When it does, this discussion will return to it.

9 likes 2y
NK
n.kirchnerTL2 Moderator19 Jul 2024#43
d.vukovic, post #20: SOUL (N Engl J Med 2025): Oral semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes. Extends the cardiovascular evidence to the oral formulation. Note that oral bioavailability is lower and more variable than injectable. Go to post

This follows post #40 rather than contradicting it.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

21 likes in reply to #20 2y
IT
integrator_traceTL2Member20 Jul 2024#44
n.villalobos, post #30: Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive. Go to post

I read post #42 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

SURMOUNT-OSA (N Engl J Med 2024): Tirzepatide in obstructive sleep apnoea, using an objective physiological endpoint. Notable because soft endpoints are avoided. Two parallel trials addressed the confounder directly.

0 likes in reply to #30 2y
AK
ak.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator20 Jul 2024#45

post #44 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

SELECT (N Engl J Med 2023): Semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes without diabetes. The first outcome trial in people without diabetes, which decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glucose control. Read the absolute numbers, not just the relative reduction.

0 likes 2y
AD
ambient_draftTL3Regular20 Jul 2024#46

STEP 1 (N Engl J Med 2021): The pivotal obesity trial for semaglutide and the reference point for most subsequent comparison. Mean weight reduction was substantially larger than anything previously achieved pharmacologically.

5 likes 2y
SL
s.lundgrenTL2 Moderator20 Jul 2024#47

Session format: read the paper before posting. The discussion is much better when everyone has. Start with the estimand and population, then methods, then results, then limitations. That order makes critique coherent.

14 likes 2y
L
LJankowiakTL3Regular21 Jul 2024#48
f.amankwah, post #28: SURPASS-2 (N Engl J Med 2021): Direct comparison of tirzepatide with semaglutide 1.0 mg. The 1.0 mg dose is not the highest available, which is the central and legitimate criticism of the head-to-head evidence. Go to post

Coming back to post #46, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Critical appraisal template: (1) What did the trial set out to estimate? (2) Could the design answer that question? (3) Was the population sufficiently similar to your population to apply the results? (4) What was the absolute effect, not just the relative one? (5) What are the two strongest criticisms available?

29 likes in reply to #28 2y
NL
ne.laurentTL2 Moderator21 Jul 2024 · edited#49
tracked_parcel, post #40: post #39 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Critical appraisal template: (1) What did the trial set out to estimate? (2) Could the design answer that question? (3) Was the population sufficiently similar to your population to apply the results? (4) What was the absolute effect, not just the relative… Go to post

post #48 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

8 likes in reply to #40 2y
NB
n.bridgewaterTL2Member21 Jul 2024#50

Worth separating two things that post #46 runs together.

FLOW (N Engl J Med 2024): Semaglutide renal outcomes in type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease. Stopped early for efficacy. Component-by-component analysis is essential because the components differ in how patient-important they are.

20 likes 2y
EF
e.ferrariTL2 Moderator21 Jul 2024#51

Coming back to post #49, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation.

0 likes 2y
SS
s.silvaTL2 Moderator22 Jul 2024#52
z.yildiz, post #35: On post #31 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. SOUL (N Engl J Med 2025): Oral semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes. Extends the cardiovascular evidence to the oral formulation. Note that oral bioavailability is lower and more variable than injectable. Go to post

Picking up post #49: that is the part I would want checked first.

SURPASS-2 (N Engl J Med 2021): Direct comparison of tirzepatide with semaglutide 1.0 mg. The 1.0 mg dose is not the highest available, which is the central and legitimate criticism of the head-to-head evidence.

0 likes in reply to #35 2y
EK
e.kimaniTL2 Moderator22 Jul 2024#53

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

19 likes 2y
K
KnowltonTL3Regular22 Jul 2024 · edited#54

SOUL (N Engl J Med 2025): Oral semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes. Extends the cardiovascular evidence to the oral formulation. Note that oral bioavailability is lower and more variable than injectable.

8 likes 2y
NL
n.lehtinenTL2 Moderator23 Jul 2024#55

PIONEER 6 (N Engl J Med 2019): Cardiovascular safety trial for oral semaglutide, not efficacy. Non-inferiority for safety was met. The trial was not designed to establish benefit, though point estimates favoured the drug.

0 likes 2y
LD
l.dziedzicTL2 Moderator23 Jul 2024#56
hana.sato, post #32: SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation. Go to post

This follows post #53 rather than contradicting it.

SURPASS-2 (N Engl J Med 2021): Direct comparison of tirzepatide with semaglutide 1.0 mg. The 1.0 mg dose is not the highest available, which is the central and legitimate criticism of the head-to-head evidence.

27 likes in reply to #32 2y
NR
n.rahimiTL2 Moderator23 Jul 2024#57

SURMOUNT-OSA (N Engl J Med 2024): Tirzepatide in obstructive sleep apnoea, using an objective physiological endpoint. Notable because soft endpoints are avoided. Two parallel trials addressed the confounder directly.

13 likes 2y
PA
p.amankwahTL2 Moderator23 Jul 2024#58

SOUL (N Engl J Med 2025): Oral semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes. Extends the cardiovascular evidence to the oral formulation. Note that oral bioavailability is lower and more variable than injectable.

4 likes 2y
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist24 Jul 2024#59
t.wojcik, post #21: TRIUMPH (ongoing): Retatrutide phase 3. No results yet. Nothing should be attributed to it because it has not finished. When it does, this discussion will return to it. Go to post

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

4 likes in reply to #21 2y
CT
c.tullochTL2 Moderator24 Jul 2024#60

SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation.

0 likes 2y