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Lounge · Off topic

Spreadsheets: an appreciation

ON
o.nybergTL23 Jun 2024#1

On the subject in the title: Spreadsheets: an appreciation Working notes rather than a conclusion.

A methods question rather than a substantive one, about spreadsheets.

Everyone quotes the same figure and I cannot find anyone who says how it was arrived at. That is not an accusation; it usually means the derivation is somewhere obvious and I have missed it.

17 likes 2.2y
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j.asanteTL24 Jun 2024#2

Worth stating the null on spreadsheets before we explain it: the observation may be nothing. That possibility deserves a sentence and usually does not get one.

21 likes 2.1y
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v.fontaineTL24 Jun 2024#3

Lounge-level thought to close on: the measure of this place is that being wrong in public here is cheap. That is a design decision and it took work.

0 likes 2.1y
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a.aguirreTL24 Jun 2024#4
v.fontaine, post #3: Lounge-level thought to close on: the measure of this place is that being wrong in public here is cheap. That is a design decision and it took work. Go to post

Noted, and thank you for writing it out rather than summarising it.

0 likes in reply to #3 2.1y
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c.adebayoTL25 Jun 2024#5
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z.yildizTL25 Jun 2024#6

If you are new and reading this thread for the answer to spreadsheets: the answer is conditional, the conditions are in the third reply, and the rest of the thread is worth skipping.

15 likes 2.1y
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l.trevinoTL25 Jun 2024#7

Offering a way to settle spreadsheets rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision.

30 likes 2.1y
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h.karlsenTL25 Jun 2024#8
l.trevino, post #7: Offering a way to settle spreadsheets rather than another opinion about it. Two measurements, taken the same way, a fortnight apart. If the difference is within the noise, the question was not answerable at this precision. Go to post

Adjacent and interesting: you might post something about nutrition, bioavailability from a food perspective, or the sociology of weight. Adjacent to this community's core but not central.

Flagging that the sources on this are thinner than the confidence in the thread suggests.

0 likes in reply to #7 2.1y
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n.vogelTL26 Jun 2024#9
h.karlsen, post #8: Adjacent and interesting: you might post something about nutrition, bioavailability from a food perspective, or the sociology of weight. Adjacent to this community's core but not central. Flagging that the sources on this are thinner than the confidence in the thread suggests. Go to post

Mildly off-topic appreciation: whoever maintains the storage-conditions document has kept it current through three revisions without ever overstating what the underlying data supports. That is hard.

20 likes in reply to #8 2.1y
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e.okaforTL26 Jun 2024 · edited#10

Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them.

0 likes 2.1y
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l.ferreiraTL26 Jun 2024#11
e.okafor, post #10: Same experience here, different supplier, so it is at least not unique to one of them. Go to post

The strongest argument against my own position on spreadsheets, stated as well as I can state it, since nobody else has yet.

16 likes in reply to #10 2.1y
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GDashwoodTL3Regular6 Jun 2024 · edited#12
h.karlsen, post #8: Adjacent and interesting: you might post something about nutrition, bioavailability from a food perspective, or the sociology of weight. Adjacent to this community's core but not central. Flagging that the sources on this are thinner than the confidence in the thread suggests. Go to post

Distinguishing three things in the spreadsheets discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both.

6 likes in reply to #8 2.1y
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular7 Jun 2024#13

Humour: light, relevant humour is welcome. Cruel humour targeting individuals or groups is not.

The rule of thumb is fine; the edge cases are where it earns its keep.

0 likes 2.1y
CV
c.vermeulenTL27 Jun 2024#14

Spreadsheets sits at the boundary between what this community can usefully discuss and what it cannot, and I think it falls on the discussable side, narrowly.

31 likes 2.1y
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y.ramosTL27 Jun 2024#15
GDashwood, post #12: Distinguishing three things in the spreadsheets discussion that keep getting used interchangeably: the observation, the proposed mechanism, and the recommendation that gets attached to both. Go to post

I think the spreadsheets question is answerable and has not been answered, which is a more optimistic position than most of this thread.

22 likes in reply to #12 2.1y
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integrator_draftTL3Regular7 Jun 2024#16

Politics and public policy: healthcare policy that affects access to these compounds is relevant here. Partisan politics is not.

10 likes 2.1y
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s.solbergTL27 Jun 2024#17

Spreadsheets would be much easier to settle if anyone reported the denominator. Almost nobody reports the denominator.

1 like 2.1y
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v.klausenTL3Regular8 Jun 2024#18

Thank you for taking the time. That was more work than a reply usually is.

0 likes 2.1y
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f.petrovTL28 Jun 2024 · edited#19
two_year_line, post #13: Humour: light, relevant humour is welcome. Cruel humour targeting individuals or groups is not. The rule of thumb is fine; the edge cases are where it earns its keep. Go to post

Community norms: if you want to discuss how the community should work (not moderation decisions, which go in Meta) the Lounge is a place for that casual discussion.

I have said this before in a thread nobody could find, so it is worth repeating.

30 likes in reply to #13 2.1y
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a.stephanopoulosTL3Regular8 Jun 2024#20

This is the sort of exchange that makes the archive worth searching.

15 likes 2.1y
SD
s.duarteTL28 Jun 2024#21
s.solberg, post #17: Spreadsheets would be much easier to settle if anyone reported the denominator. Almost nobody reports the denominator. Go to post

Two sentences on spreadsheets and then I will stop, because the rest is speculation and the thread is better without mine.

What is documented is narrow. What is inferred from it is broad. The gap between them is where every argument here lives.

4 likes in reply to #17 2.1y
VB
v.bhattacharyaTL28 Jun 2024#22

Agreed, and the corollary is that a place with no visible corrections is not a place with fewer errors.

A qualification I should have led with rather than closed on.

12 likes 2.1y
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s.rasmussenTL29 Jun 2024#23

Agreed on all of that, and I have nothing to add to it.

26 likes 2.1y
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f.wojcikTL29 Jun 2024#24

The reason spreadsheets is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent.

0 likes 2.1y
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JFitzgibbonTL2Member9 Jun 2024 · edited#25
v.bhattacharya, post #22: Agreed, and the corollary is that a place with no visible corrections is not a place with fewer errors. A qualification I should have led with rather than closed on. Go to post

Mildly off-topic appreciation: whoever maintains the storage-conditions document has kept it current through three revisions without ever overstating what the underlying data supports. That is hard.

This is the version I would want a new member to read first.

2 likes in reply to #22 2.1y
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n.nakamuraTL29 Jun 2024#26

An observation about spreadsheets that I cannot explain and am posting anyway, on the principle that unexplained observations are more useful public than private.

8 likes 2.1y
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a.salcedoTL3Regular9 Jun 2024#27

Adding what did not work for me on spreadsheets, since the failures never get written up and they are half the useful information.

19 likes 2.1y
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a.sorensenTL210 Jun 2024#28
integrator_draft, post #16: Politics and public policy: healthcare policy that affects access to these compounds is relevant here. Partisan politics is not. Go to post

No disagreement from me. Posting only so the question does not look ignored.

0 likes in reply to #16 2.1y
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n.okwuosaTL210 Jun 2024#29

Bookmarking this. I will come back when I have something worth adding.

0 likes 2.1y
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p.iyer_pharmdTL3Pharmacist10 Jun 2024#30
f.wojcik, post #24: The reason spreadsheets is hard to answer is that the obvious measurement and the relevant quantity are not the same thing, and substituting one for the other is silent. Go to post

A digression that keeps occurring to me: the most-linked documents here are the dullest ones. Nothing gets cited like the unit-arithmetic page.

4 likes in reply to #24 2.1y