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Evidence · Preprints

Tracking a preprint to publication: a worked example — the long version

PB
p.boatengTL2 Moderator13 May 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Tracking a preprint to publication: a worked example — the long version Everything below is what sits behind that.

Comparing STEP 8 (JAMA, 2022) with STEP 2 (Lancet, 2021) and finding the comparison harder than it looks.

Different populations, different durations, different endpoints defined slightly differently, and in one case a different estimand. People compare the headline percentages anyway, including me until recently.

Is there a defensible way to put these side by side, or is the honest answer that there is not and we should stop?

0 likes 2.2y
HJ
h.jansenTL2 Moderator20 May 2024#2

On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

3 likes 2.2y
EF
erratum_fileTL3Regular26 May 2024#3

Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first.

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

15 likes 2.2y
AK
an.kirchnerTL2 Moderator31 May 2024#4
erratum_file, post #3: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

30 likes in reply to #3 2.2y
GC
glossary_checkTL2Member4 Jun 2024#5

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

0 likes 2.1y
SP
s.perrinTL2 Moderator8 Jun 2024#6

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

1 like 2.1y
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member12 Jun 2024#7
erratum_file, post #3: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

This follows post #4 rather than contradicting it.

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

10 likes in reply to #3 2.1y
SK
s.kravchenkoTL216 Jun 2024#8
GF
gradient_fileTL2Member20 Jun 2024#9

post #8 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

2 likes 2.1y
FE
f.espinozaTL2 Moderator24 Jun 2024#10

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

9 likes 2.1y
GD
glossary_deskTL3Regular27 Jun 2024#11
s.perrin, post #6: How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint. Go to post

Coming back to post #9, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

27 likes in reply to #6 2.1y
FP
f.piresTL2 Moderator1 Jul 2024#12

Picking up post #9: that is the part I would want checked first.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

13 likes 2.1y
N
NicolaidesTL3Regular4 Jul 2024#13

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

5 likes 2.1y
VS
v.stanescuTL2 Moderator8 Jul 2024#14
f.pires, post #12: Picking up post #9: that is the part I would want checked first. Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Go to post

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

0 likes in reply to #12 2.1y
TF
taper_fileTL3Regular11 Jul 2024#15
cohort_notes, post #7: This follows post #4 rather than contradicting it. Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised. Go to post

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

20 likes in reply to #7 2y
JL
j.lokkenTL2 Moderator14 Jul 2024#16

This follows post #13 rather than contradicting it.

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

9 likes 2y
D
DKwiatkowskiTL3Regular17 Jul 2024#17

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

2 likes 2y
DA
d.achebeTL2 Moderator21 Jul 2024 · edited#18

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

0 likes 2y
BT
baseline_tableTL2Member24 Jul 2024#19
cohort_notes, post #7: This follows post #4 rather than contradicting it. Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised. Go to post

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

14 likes in reply to #7 2y
AM
a.molnarTL2 Moderator27 Jul 2024#20
erratum_file, post #3: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

5 likes in reply to #3 2y
GD
g.danquahTL2 Moderator30 Jul 2024#21

Picking up post #18: that is the part I would want checked first.

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

20 likes 2y
B
BuchholzTL2Member2 Aug 2024#22
taper_file, post #15: How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint. Go to post

Coming back to post #20, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

0 likes in reply to #15 2y
SP
s.perrinTL2 Moderator5 Aug 2024 · edited#23
p.boateng, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Tracking a preprint to publication: a worked example — the long version Everything below is what sits behind that. Comparing STEP 8 ( JAMA , 2022) with STEP 2 ( Lancet , 2021) and finding the comparison harder than it looks. Different populations, different durations, different endpoints… Go to post

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

2 likes in reply to #1 2y
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member8 Aug 2024#24

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

9 likes 2y
AK
an.kirchnerTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2024#25

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

14 likes 2y
GC
glossary_checkTL2Member14 Aug 2024#26
taper_file, post #15: How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint. Go to post

I read post #24 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

29 likes in reply to #15 23mo
AV
a.vestergaardTL2 Moderator17 Aug 2024#27

post #26 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

0 likes 23mo
GD
glossary_deskTL3Regular19 Aug 2024#28

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

5 likes 23mo
SH
s.hartmannTL2 Moderator22 Aug 2024#29

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

0 likes 23mo
K
KForsbergTL2Member25 Aug 2024#30

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 23mo