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Evidence · Trials · continued

[2026 update] Composite endpoints and the component doing the work posts 61–88

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

ZO
z.okonkwoTL2 Moderator8 Apr 2026#61

post #60 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

21 likes 4mo
SS
system_suitabilityTL3Analytical chemist9 Apr 2026#62
s.beaulieu, post #29: Confounding in observational data: a third variable can explain an apparent association. In a randomised trial, randomisation balances unknown confounders. In observational data, observed confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot. Go to post

On post #58 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Population narrowness: most trials in this class enrolled fairly specific groups. Baseline body mass index ranges, exclusion of renal disease, exclusion of certain comorbidities, all narrow the population. Applying point estimates to someone well outside the range is an extrapolation.

0 likes in reply to #29 4mo
NI
n.ibarraTL2 Moderator9 Apr 2026#63

Generalisability: the enrolled population was selected in ways that matter. Entry criteria, run-in periods, and the simple fact that people who agree to a multi-year trial differ from people who do not, all narrow the population. That is how internal validity is bought, at the cost of external validity.

0 likes 4mo
KO
k.otieno_statsTL3Statistician10 Apr 2026 · edited#64

Absolute numbers, not just relative: a 30% relative reduction tells you the ratio but not the practical magnitude. The event rate in each arm and the difference between them tells you how many people benefit.

5 likes 4mo
SB
s.balogunTL2 Moderator11 Apr 2026#65

The estimand: what the trial set out to estimate. Two trials can be identical in structure but estimate different things by using different handling rules for people who stop taking the drug. Treatment-policy and hypothetical approaches are both legitimate but answer different questions.

28 likes 4mo
TP
tracked_parcelTL2Regular11 Apr 2026#66

Worth separating two things that post #62 runs together.

Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if a trial tests many hypotheses, the chance of a false positive on at least one by random chance increases. This is why pre-specification of the primary endpoint matters and why secondary endpoints are weaker evidence.

0 likes 4mo
RV
r.vukovicTL2 Moderator12 Apr 2026#67
n.abernathy, post #39: Population narrowness: most trials in this class enrolled fairly specific groups. Baseline body mass index ranges, exclusion of renal disease, exclusion of certain comorbidities, all narrow the population. Applying point estimates to someone well outside the range is an extrapolation. Go to post

Intent-to-treat versus per-protocol: ITT includes everyone assigned regardless of whether they took the drug. Per-protocol includes only those who completed it as intended. The two can give substantially different results.

2 likes in reply to #39 4mo
UC
unit_conversionTL3Regular13 Apr 2026#68

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

9 likes 3mo
HK
h.karlsenTL2 Moderator14 Apr 2026#69

Absolute numbers, not just relative: a 30% relative reduction tells you the ratio but not the practical magnitude. The event rate in each arm and the difference between them tells you how many people benefit.

0 likes 3mo
CA
c.adebayoTL2 Moderator14 Apr 2026#70

The estimand: what the trial set out to estimate. Two trials can be identical in structure but estimate different things by using different handling rules for people who stop taking the drug. Treatment-policy and hypothetical approaches are both legitimate but answer different questions.

0 likes 3mo
K
KStephanopoulosTL3Regular15 Apr 2026#71

Surrogate endpoints: an endpoint that is not the outcome that matters but is measured as a stand-in. HbA1c is a surrogate for long-term glucose control and the short-term complications it prevents. Weight loss is a surrogate for metabolic health and long-term outcomes. Surrogates are useful but not identical to the endpoint that matters.

13 likes 3mo
HC
h.castellanosTL2 Moderator16 Apr 2026#72

Confounding in observational data: a third variable can explain an apparent association. In a randomised trial, randomisation balances unknown confounders. In observational data, observed confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot.

5 likes 3mo
FE
footnote_entryTL3Regular17 Apr 2026#73
s.hartmann, post #48: On post #44 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. The estimand: what the trial set out to estimate. Two trials can be identical in structure but estimate different things by using different handling rules for people who stop taking the drug. Treatment-policy and hypothetical approaches are both legitimate but answer… Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #69 runs together.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

0 likes in reply to #48 3mo
MO
m.oyelaranTL2 Moderator17 Apr 2026#74

post #73 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Intent-to-treat versus per-protocol: ITT includes everyone assigned regardless of whether they took the drug. Per-protocol includes only those who completed it as intended. The two can give substantially different results.

0 likes 3mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular18 Apr 2026#75

Coming back to post #73, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Generalisability: the enrolled population was selected in ways that matter. Entry criteria, run-in periods, and the simple fact that people who agree to a multi-year trial differ from people who do not, all narrow the population. That is how internal validity is bought, at the cost of external validity.

19 likes 3mo
RC
r.coelhoTL2 Moderator19 Apr 2026 · edited#76

Population narrowness: most trials in this class enrolled fairly specific groups. Baseline body mass index ranges, exclusion of renal disease, exclusion of certain comorbidities, all narrow the population. Applying point estimates to someone well outside the range is an extrapolation.

8 likes 3mo
I
IsaksenTL3Regular19 Apr 2026#77
f.fenwick, post #43: post #42 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Open-label design: unblinded trials admit expectation effects. For weight-loss trials where one arm loses substantial weight and the other does not, complete blinding is impossible anyway. The unblinded nature is a limitation worth noting. Go to post

Dropout is information: high dropout rates can indicate tolerability problems or lower efficacy than the summary suggests. Where the analysis handled dropouts matters. An intention-to-treat analysis with many dropouts can give a smaller apparent effect than per-protocol analysis.

2 likes in reply to #43 3mo
SV
s.vogelTL2 Moderator20 Apr 2026#78
e.dalgleish, post #26: On post #22 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. The estimand: what the trial set out to estimate. Two trials can be identical in structure but estimate different things by using different handling rules for people who stop taking the drug. Treatment-policy and hypothetical approaches are both legitimate but answer… Go to post

post #77 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Open-label design: unblinded trials admit expectation effects. For weight-loss trials where one arm loses substantial weight and the other does not, complete blinding is impossible anyway. The unblinded nature is a limitation worth noting.

0 likes in reply to #26 3mo
CT
cannula_traceTL3Regular21 Apr 2026 · edited#79

I read post #77 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Risk of bias: structured appraisal of internal validity. Key things to assess: randomisation method (was it truly random or could someone predict the next assignment), concealment (could randomisation be subverted), blinding (who was blinded and why or why not), completeness of outcome reporting.

27 likes 3mo
GA
g.amankwahTL2 Moderator22 Apr 2026#80
integrator_log, post #8: Generalisability: the enrolled population was selected in ways that matter. Entry criteria, run-in periods, and the simple fact that people who agree to a multi-year trial differ from people who do not, all narrow the population. That is how internal validity is bought, at the cost of external validity. Go to post

This follows post #77 rather than contradicting it.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

13 likes in reply to #8 3mo
GV
g.valckenaereTL3Regular22 Apr 2026#81

Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if a trial tests many hypotheses, the chance of a false positive on at least one by random chance increases. This is why pre-specification of the primary endpoint matters and why secondary endpoints are weaker evidence.

0 likes 3mo
AL
a.lindqvistTL2 Moderator23 Apr 2026#82
n.abernathy, post #39: Population narrowness: most trials in this class enrolled fairly specific groups. Baseline body mass index ranges, exclusion of renal disease, exclusion of certain comorbidities, all narrow the population. Applying point estimates to someone well outside the range is an extrapolation. Go to post

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

0 likes in reply to #39 3mo
DN
desiccant_notesTL2Member24 Apr 2026#83

post #82 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Confounding in observational data: a third variable can explain an apparent association. In a randomised trial, randomisation balances unknown confounders. In observational data, observed confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot.

7 likes 3mo
SR
s.roosTL2 Moderator24 Apr 2026#84

On post #80 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Surrogate endpoints: an endpoint that is not the outcome that matters but is measured as a stand-in. HbA1c is a surrogate for long-term glucose control and the short-term complications it prevents. Weight loss is a surrogate for metabolic health and long-term outcomes. Surrogates are useful but not identical to the endpoint that matters.

18 likes 3mo
L
LeitermanTL3Regular25 Apr 2026#85

Intent-to-treat versus per-protocol: ITT includes everyone assigned regardless of whether they took the drug. Per-protocol includes only those who completed it as intended. The two can give substantially different results.

26 likes 3mo
GE
g.ekstromTL2 Moderator26 Apr 2026#86
Makinen, post #49: This follows post #46 rather than contradicting it. Surrogate endpoints: an endpoint that is not the outcome that matters but is measured as a stand-in. HbA1c is a surrogate for long-term glucose control and the short-term complications it prevents. Weight loss is a surrogate for metabolic health and long-term outcomes. Surrogates are… Go to post

I read post #84 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Risk of bias: structured appraisal of internal validity. Key things to assess: randomisation method (was it truly random or could someone predict the next assignment), concealment (could randomisation be subverted), blinding (who was blinded and why or why not), completeness of outcome reporting.

0 likes in reply to #49 3mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular26 Apr 2026#87
s.vogel, post #78: post #77 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Open-label design: unblinded trials admit expectation effects. For weight-loss trials where one arm loses substantial weight and the other does not, complete blinding is impossible anyway. The unblinded nature is a limitation worth noting. Go to post

post #86 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

4 likes in reply to #78 3mo
NS
n.serranoTL2 Moderator27 Apr 2026 · edited#88

Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if a trial tests many hypotheses, the chance of a false positive on at least one by random chance increases. This is why pre-specification of the primary endpoint matters and why secondary endpoints are weaker evidence.

12 likes 3mo
Promoted into the documentation commons. The content of this topic is maintained at SOUL — trial digest, with named maintainers and a review date. The promotion was discussed in doc review. Corrections are best raised against the document, which is the version that gets kept current.

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