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Compounds · Cagrilintide & amylin analogues

Amylin analogue mechanism: satiety signalling separate from GLP-1

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Solved by f.haddad in post #9
Amylin signalling is distinct from GLP-1 signalling. Amylin slows gastric emptying and promotes satiety through a different receptor and different neural pathways. The hypothesis behind combination is two complementary satiety mechanisms with one injection.

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SR
s.roosTL2 Moderator8 Sep 2024#1

Amylin analogue mechanism: satiety signalling separate from GLP-1 — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Comparing STEP 4 (JAMA, 2021) with SCALE (N Engl J Med, 2015) and finding the comparison harder than it looks.

Different populations, different durations, different endpoints defined slightly differently, and in one case a different estimand. People compare the headline percentages anyway, including me until recently.

Is there a defensible way to put these side by side, or is the honest answer that there is not and we should stop?

7 likes 23mo
BI
blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist14 Sep 2024#2

This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

0 likes 22mo
HI
h.iyerTL2 Moderator19 Sep 2024#3

Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together.

The CagriSema phase 2 paper: a fixed combination of the two components in one weekly injection. The trade-off of a fixed combination is that you cannot titrate the components independently and you cannot attribute effect to one component from a combination trial.

0 likes 22mo
PI
p.iyer_pharmdTL3Pharmacist23 Sep 2024#4
blank_injection, post #2: This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it. For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

Cagrilintide alone is discussed less than in combination because the published data is almost entirely from combination trials. The phase 2 combination data was consistent with more effect than either component alone, but phase 2 cannot establish whether that is synergy or simply additivity.

17 likes in reply to #2 22mo
NO
n.okwuosaTL2 Moderator26 Sep 2024#5

Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Is synergy the right word for the combination data? A phase 2 trial cannot establish whether effects are synergistic or additive. Synergy is a mechanistic claim that requires a designed experiment to support it. The combination works, but the mechanism is unsettled.

7 likes 22mo
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator30 Sep 2024#6
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first.

Cagrilintide molecular characteristics: it is a synthetic amylin analogue, substituted to prevent the amyloidogenicity of human amylin. The sequence is short and analytically straightforward to confirm by LC-MS.

1 like 22mo
FA
f.amankwahTL2 Moderator3 Oct 2024#7

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 22mo
BO
b.okonkwoTL2 Moderator6 Oct 2024#8
blank_injection, post #2: This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it. For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

What is genuinely unknown about long-term amylin agonism: real-world response rates, whether effect is durable with continued use, whether satiety adaptation occurs over months or years, safety profile in populations not enrolled in the trials.

24 likes in reply to #2 22mo
FH
f.haddadTL2 Moderator Solution9 Oct 2024#9

Amylin signalling is distinct from GLP-1 signalling. Amylin slows gastric emptying and promotes satiety through a different receptor and different neural pathways. The hypothesis behind combination is two complementary satiety mechanisms with one injection.

11 likes 22mo
PN
p.novotnyTL2Regular12 Oct 2024#10

For anyone arriving from searches on "amylin agonist": this subcategory discusses published clinical evidence and what it does and does not establish. It does not endorse or recommend the compounds discussed.

3 likes 22mo
AN
a.nwosuTL2 Moderator15 Oct 2024 · edited#11
hana.sato, post #6: Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first. Cagrilintide molecular characteristics: it is a synthetic amylin analogue, substituted to prevent the amyloidogenicity of human amylin. The sequence is short and analytically straightforward to confirm by LC-MS. Go to post

Historical amylin analogues: pramlintide was the only long-acting amylin analogue licensed for some time and its poor adherence was a known limitation. A weekly formulation addresses that practical barrier.

19 likes in reply to #6 21mo
AB
a.batistaTL2 Moderator18 Oct 2024#12

Reading the phase 2 paper: it establishes tolerability and efficacy in a selected population on a defined dose escalation. It does not establish the lowest effective dose or the durability over years.

0 likes 21mo
AZ
a.zamoraTL2 Moderator21 Oct 2024#13

post #12 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Gastric emptying: both amylin and GLP-1 slow it, through partly overlapping but distinct mechanisms. Whether the slowing at a higher magnitude produces disproportionate nausea or is tolerable is a question phase 3 exists to answer.

0 likes 21mo
DT
d.tammTL2 Moderator24 Oct 2024#14
n.okwuosa, post #5: Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Is synergy the right word for the combination data? A phase 2 trial cannot establish whether effects are synergistic or additive. Synergy is a mechanistic claim that requires a designed experiment to support it. The combination works, but the mechanism… Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #10 runs together.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

4 likes in reply to #5 21mo
EV
e.vargaTL2 Moderator26 Oct 2024#15

Nausea profile of amylin analogues: the historical agent pramlintide required multiple daily doses and had a difficult tolerability profile. A weekly formulation is a substantially different proposition and data from that is more relevant than data from pramlintide.

26 likes 21mo
RA
r.aldana_pharmdTL429 Oct 2024#16
KP
k.perrinTL2 Moderator1 Nov 2024#17

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

2 likes 21mo
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator3 Nov 2024#18
p.iyer_pharmd, post #4: Cagrilintide alone is discussed less than in combination because the published data is almost entirely from combination trials. The phase 2 combination data was consistent with more effect than either component alone, but phase 2 cannot establish whether that is synergy or simply additivity. Go to post

On post #14 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

The dosing interval: cagrilintide's half-life is roughly 7 to 8 days, suitable for weekly dosing. The pharmacokinetics are the reason the dosing schedule makes sense.

8 likes in reply to #4 21mo
RE
r.erdoganTL2 Moderator6 Nov 2024#19
f.amankwah, post #7: Two things before anyone answers the substance. First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound. Go to post

This follows post #16 rather than contradicting it.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes in reply to #7 21mo
DB
dr_bhattacharyaTL3Physician8 Nov 2024#20
a.nwosu, post #11: Historical amylin analogues: pramlintide was the only long-acting amylin analogue licensed for some time and its poor adherence was a known limitation. A weekly formulation addresses that practical barrier. Go to post

Gastric emptying: both amylin and GLP-1 slow it, through partly overlapping but distinct mechanisms. Whether the slowing at a higher magnitude produces disproportionate nausea or is tolerable is a question phase 3 exists to answer.

0 likes in reply to #11 21mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular11 Nov 2024#21

I read post #19 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

What is genuinely unknown about long-term amylin agonism: real-world response rates, whether effect is durable with continued use, whether satiety adaptation occurs over months or years, safety profile in populations not enrolled in the trials.

9 likes 21mo
SB
s.balogunTL2 Moderator13 Nov 2024#22
hana.sato, post #6: Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first. Cagrilintide molecular characteristics: it is a synthetic amylin analogue, substituted to prevent the amyloidogenicity of human amylin. The sequence is short and analytically straightforward to confirm by LC-MS. Go to post

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

2 likes in reply to #6 20mo
KO
k.otieno_statsTL3Statistician16 Nov 2024#23

Nausea profile of amylin analogues: the historical agent pramlintide required multiple daily doses and had a difficult tolerability profile. A weekly formulation is a substantially different proposition and data from that is more relevant than data from pramlintide.

0 likes 20mo
JM
j.moreauTL2 Moderator18 Nov 2024#24

post #23 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Cagrilintide molecular characteristics: it is a synthetic amylin analogue, substituted to prevent the amyloidogenicity of human amylin. The sequence is short and analytically straightforward to confirm by LC-MS.

21 likes 20mo
SS
system_suitabilityTL3Analytical chemist21 Nov 2024 · edited#25
p.novotny, post #10: For anyone arriving from searches on "amylin agonist": this subcategory discusses published clinical evidence and what it does and does not establish. It does not endorse or recommend the compounds discussed. Go to post

Coming back to post #23, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

5 likes in reply to #10 20mo
HD
h.delgadoTL2 Moderator23 Nov 2024#26
n.okwuosa, post #5: Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Is synergy the right word for the combination data? A phase 2 trial cannot establish whether effects are synergistic or additive. Synergy is a mechanistic claim that requires a designed experiment to support it. The combination works, but the mechanism… Go to post

Picking up post #23: that is the part I would want checked first.

Historical amylin analogues: pramlintide was the only long-acting amylin analogue licensed for some time and its poor adherence was a known limitation. A weekly formulation addresses that practical barrier.

0 likes in reply to #5 20mo
CR
compounding_ruthTL4Pharmacist25 Nov 2024#27

Amylin signalling is distinct from GLP-1 signalling. Amylin slows gastric emptying and promotes satiety through a different receptor and different neural pathways. The hypothesis behind combination is two complementary satiety mechanisms with one injection.

29 likes 20mo
JA
j.asanteTL2 Moderator28 Nov 2024#28

For anyone arriving from searches on "amylin agonist": this subcategory discusses published clinical evidence and what it does and does not establish. It does not endorse or recommend the compounds discussed.

14 likes 20mo
TV
t.vasquezTL430 Nov 2024#29
VB
va.baptistaTL2 Moderator2 Dec 2024#30

This follows post #27 rather than contradicting it.

Cagrilintide alone is discussed less than in combination because the published data is almost entirely from combination trials. The phase 2 combination data was consistent with more effect than either component alone, but phase 2 cannot establish whether that is synergy or simply additivity.

8 likes 20mo