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Analytics · COA interpretation · continued

Coming back to: Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

RM
ra.mensaTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#31
ni.kravchenko, post #17: I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient. Go to post

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes in reply to #17 2y
JD
j.delacroixTL3Regular10 Aug 2024#32
endo_fellow_rk, post #24: What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker. Go to post

A certificate of analysis is a statement by its issuer that a defined test was performed on a defined lot and produced a defined result. That is all it is, and it is not nothing. What makes it usable: lot identifier matching the container, test date, method identification specific enough to reproduce, the actual result as a number, and the acceptance criterion stated separately from the result.

5 likes in reply to #24 2y
CF
c.falkTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#33

This follows post #30 rather than contradicting it.

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

20 likes 2y
AW
a.westergaardTL3Regular10 Aug 2024#34

I read post #32 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

0 likes 2y
DY
d.yilmazTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#35
r.ekstrom, post #23: Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per… Go to post

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

0 likes in reply to #23 2y
ML
m.lindqvistTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#36

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

2 likes 2y
RR
r.restrepoTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#37

Picking up post #34: that is the part I would want checked first.

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

14 likes 2y
CL
c.lundgrenTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2024#38

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

28 likes 2y
AV
a.villalobosTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2024#39
n.ramos, post #13: Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it. Go to post

What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker.

4 likes in reply to #13 2y
D
DSakamotoTL3Regular11 Aug 2024 · edited#40

Worth separating two things that post #36 runs together.

What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker.

13 likes 2y
EA
e.adeyemiTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2024#41
e.almeida, post #16: A certificate of analysis is a statement by its issuer that a defined test was performed on a defined lot and produced a defined result. That is all it is, and it is not nothing. What makes it usable: lot identifier matching the container, test date, method identification specific enough to reproduce, the actual result as a number, and… Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #37 runs together.

When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not.

0 likes in reply to #16 2y
PR
policy_readerTL2Regular11 Aug 2024#42

post #41 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

A certificate of analysis is a statement by its issuer that a defined test was performed on a defined lot and produced a defined result. That is all it is, and it is not nothing. What makes it usable: lot identifier matching the container, test date, method identification specific enough to reproduce, the actual result as a number, and the acceptance criterion stated separately from the result.

29 likes 2y
CV
ca.vermeulenTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2024#43

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

14 likes 2y
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular11 Aug 2024 · edited#44

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

5 likes 2y
RM
r.mensaTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2024#45
TL4_Halvorsen, post #22: Picking up post #19: that is the part I would want checked first. Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported. Go to post

On post #41 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

0 likes in reply to #22 2y
NG
np_gilmoreTL3Nurse practitioner11 Aug 2024#46

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

0 likes 2y
FR
f.rasmussenTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2024#47

Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot.

21 likes 2y
MD
m.dalgaardTL3Regular12 Aug 2024#48
a.westergaard, post #34: I read post #32 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain… Go to post

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

9 likes in reply to #34 2y
SD
s.dialloTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024#49

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

2 likes 2y
OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator12 Aug 2024#50
f.rasmussen, post #47: Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot. Go to post

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

0 likes in reply to #47 2y
CD
c.dahlbergTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024#51
weekly_pin, post #26: Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate. Go to post

This follows post #48 rather than contradicting it.

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

1 like in reply to #26 2y
JB
j.baptistaTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024 · edited#52

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

6 likes 2y
VK
v.krastevTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024#53

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

16 likes 2y
MA
m.achebeTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024#54
e.almeida, post #16: A certificate of analysis is a statement by its issuer that a defined test was performed on a defined lot and produced a defined result. That is all it is, and it is not nothing. What makes it usable: lot identifier matching the container, test date, method identification specific enough to reproduce, the actual result as a number, and… Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

31 likes in reply to #16 2y
VS
v.sjobergTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024#55

Picking up post #52: that is the part I would want checked first.

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

3 likes 2y
TV
t.vasquezTL4 Moderator12 Aug 2024#56
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Coming back to post #54, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

10 likes 2y
MR
m.rasmussenTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024#57

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

22 likes 2y
ZO
z.onwukaTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024#58
t.marchetti, post #11: Picking up post #8: that is the part I would want checked first. Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as… Go to post

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

0 likes in reply to #11 23mo
EC
excursion_checkTL3Regular12 Aug 2024 · edited#59
Rodrigues, post #18: Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot. Go to post

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

5 likes in reply to #18 23mo
AH
a.hartmannTL2 Moderator13 Aug 2024#60
ra.mensa, post #31: I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient. Go to post

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

15 likes in reply to #31 23mo