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Analytics · Mass spectrometry

Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, tabulated

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Solved by t.nardone in post #4
Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means

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AF
a.finnegan_rdTL2Dietitian26 Oct 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Oxidation and deamidation mass shifts, tabulated Everything below is what sits behind that.

Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked.

semaglutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4113.6 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply charged series rather than the intact singly charged ion, so for the doubly charged species I calculate (4113.6 + 2 x 1.00728) / 2, and for the triply charged the analogous expression.

The observed values in the report sit within a few ppm of those. My question is what that actually establishes, because I have seen people treat a mass match as a purity result and I do not think it is one.

8 likes 21mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular31 Oct 2024#2

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

13 likes 21mo
IA
i.amankwahTL2 Moderator4 Nov 2024#3

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

1 like 21mo
TN
t.nardoneTL3Regular Solution7 Nov 2024#4

Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

7 likes 21mo
CS
c.serranoTL2 Moderator10 Nov 2024#5
i.amankwah, post #3: Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy. Go to post

post #4 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

2 likes in reply to #3 21mo
B
BBramleyTL3Regular13 Nov 2024#6

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

8 likes 20mo
AE
a.eriksenTL2 Moderator15 Nov 2024#7

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

26 likes 20mo
VD
vial_deskTL3Regular18 Nov 2024 · edited#8
t.nardone, post #4: Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

0 likes in reply to #4 20mo
EM
e.mensaTL2 Moderator20 Nov 2024#9

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

0 likes 20mo
LC
l.chevalierTL3Regular23 Nov 2024#10

On post #6 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 20mo
MI
m.ilungaTL2 Moderator25 Nov 2024#11

Coming back to post #9, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 20mo
DS
d.szymanskiTL3Wiki editor27 Nov 2024#12

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

21 likes 20mo
MM
m.mwangiTL2 Moderator30 Nov 2024#13
j.vandermolen, post #2: Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

9 likes in reply to #2 20mo
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular2 Dec 2024#14

post #13 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

2 likes 20mo
SD
st.dialloTL2 Moderator4 Dec 2024#15

I read post #13 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

30 likes 20mo
H
HHidalgoTL2Member6 Dec 2024#16

This follows post #13 rather than contradicting it.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

15 likes 20mo
ST
s.teixeiraTL2 Moderator9 Dec 2024#17
HHidalgo, post #16: This follows post #13 rather than contradicting it. Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass. Go to post

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

6 likes in reply to #16 20mo
K
KAnderssonTL3Regular11 Dec 2024 · edited#18
g.tanaka, post #14: post #13 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. Go to post

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

1 like in reply to #14 20mo
IA
i.amankwahTL2 Moderator13 Dec 2024#19

Coming back to post #17, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

22 likes 19mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular15 Dec 2024#20

Picking up post #17: that is the part I would want checked first.

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

10 likes 19mo
SM
so.mbekiTL2 Moderator17 Dec 2024#21

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

30 likes 19mo
F
FFaulknerTL3Regular19 Dec 2024#22

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

0 likes 19mo
BA
b.adeyemiTL2 Moderator21 Dec 2024#23
vial_desk, post #8: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

6 likes in reply to #8 19mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL3Regular23 Dec 2024#24

On post #20 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

15 likes 19mo
KK
k.karlsenTL2 Moderator25 Dec 2024#25

This follows post #22 rather than contradicting it.

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

23 likes 19mo
I
IMainwaringTL3Regular27 Dec 2024#26
b.adeyemi, post #23: Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size. Go to post

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

0 likes in reply to #23 19mo
VM
v.malinowskiTL2 Moderator29 Dec 2024#27
BBramley, post #6: Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass. Go to post

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

3 likes in reply to #6 19mo
N
NLoughranTL3Regular31 Dec 2024#28

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

10 likes 19mo
ZI
z.iyerTL2 Moderator1 Jan 2025#29

Picking up post #26: that is the part I would want checked first.

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes 19mo
LO
l.oseiTL2 Moderator3 Jan 2025#30

Coming back to post #28, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

2 likes 19mo