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Evidence · Preprints

How this community labels and discusses unrefereed work

DV
d.vukovicTL2 Moderator1 Jun 2024#1

How this community labels and discusses unrefereed work — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked.

I have seen SCALE (N Engl J Med, 2015) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows.

My reading is that the trial is sound for its own question and is being stretched to answer a different one. I might be wrong about that, which is why this is a topic rather than a correction.

What I would like from this discussion: someone who disagrees with me to say why, with the section of the paper they are relying on.

31 likes 2.2y
D
DKwiatkowskiTL3Regular3 Jun 2024 · edited#2

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

32 likes 2.2y
HK
h.krastevTL2 Moderator4 Jun 2024#3
DKwiatkowski, post #2: Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real. Go to post

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

1 like in reply to #2 2.1y
TF
taper_fileTL3Regular4 Jun 2024#4
d.vukovic, post #1: How this community labels and discusses unrefereed work — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. I have seen SCALE ( N Engl J Med , 2015) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows. My reading is that the… Go to post

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

6 likes in reply to #1 2.1y
WV
w.verhoevenTL2 Moderator5 Jun 2024#5

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

23 likes 2.1y
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NicolaidesTL36 Jun 2024#6
GT
g.tammTL2 Moderator7 Jun 2024#7

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

3 likes 2.1y
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NorringtonTL3Regular7 Jun 2024#8
w.verhoeven, post #5: Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

Coming back to post #6, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

11 likes in reply to #5 2.1y
AW
am.wikstromTL2 Moderator8 Jun 2024 · edited#9
Norrington, post #8: Coming back to post #6, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint. Go to post

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

7 likes in reply to #8 2.1y
DM
d.magalhesTL2Member9 Jun 2024#10

Worth separating two things that post #6 runs together.

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

17 likes 2.1y
EF
e.ferreiraTL3Regular9 Jun 2024 · edited#11

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

2 likes 2.1y
K
KAnderssonTL3Regular10 Jun 2024#12

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

0 likes 2.1y
EN
e.ndiayeTL2 Moderator11 Jun 2024#13

Worth separating two things that post #9 runs together.

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

26 likes 2.1y
DS
d.szymanskiTL3Wiki editor11 Jun 2024#14
w.verhoeven, post #5: Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

post #13 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

12 likes in reply to #5 2.1y
MM
m.mwangiTL2 Moderator12 Jun 2024#15

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

4 likes 2.1y
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular13 Jun 2024#16

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes 2.1y
IG
i.guerreroTL2 Moderator13 Jun 2024#17
KAndersson, post #12: Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Go to post

On post #13 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

0 likes in reply to #12 2.1y
TD
titration_diaryTL3Regular14 Jun 2024#18
am.wikstrom, post #9: Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised. Go to post

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

18 likes in reply to #9 2.1y
AJ
a.jansenTL2 Moderator14 Jun 2024#19
w.verhoeven, post #5: Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

0 likes in reply to #5 2.1y
MD
m.dalgaardTL3Regular15 Jun 2024#20

This follows post #17 rather than contradicting it.

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

27 likes 2.1y
FA
f.amankwahTL2 Moderator15 Jun 2024#21

This follows post #18 rather than contradicting it.

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

0 likes 2.1y
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator16 Jun 2024#22
d.szymanski, post #14: post #13 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised. Go to post
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

5 likes in reply to #14 2.1y
FF
f.fonsecaTL2 Moderator16 Jun 2024#23

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

0 likes 2.1y
BO
b.okonkwoTL2 Moderator17 Jun 2024 · edited#24

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

2 likes 2.1y
HI
h.iyerTL2 Moderator18 Jun 2024#25

Picking up post #22: that is the part I would want checked first.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

13 likes 2.1y
BI
blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist18 Jun 2024#26
a.jansen, post #19: Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Go to post

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

26 likes in reply to #19 2.1y
NO
n.okwuosaTL2 Moderator19 Jun 2024#27
h.krastev, post #3: What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint. Go to post

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

0 likes in reply to #3 2.1y
PI
p.iyer_pharmdTL3Pharmacist19 Jun 2024#28

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

4 likes 2.1y
ES
e.steinerTL2 Moderator20 Jun 2024#29

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

18 likes 2.1y
QZ
q.zhao_qaTL3Quality assurance20 Jun 2024#30
e.ndiaye, post #13: Worth separating two things that post #9 runs together. Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists. Go to post

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

0 likes in reply to #13 2.1y