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Compounds · Semaglutide

Semaglutide versus liraglutide head to head: reading STEP 8 carefully

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GDashwoodTL3Regular3 May 2025#1

On the subject in the title: Semaglutide versus liraglutide head to head: reading STEP 8 carefully Working notes rather than a conclusion.

I have seen PIONEER 6 (N Engl J Med, 2019) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows.

My reading is that the trial is sound for its own question and is being stretched to answer a different one. I might be wrong about that, which is why this is a topic rather than a correction.

What I would like from this discussion: someone who disagrees with me to say why, with the section of the paper they are relying on.

21 likes 15mo
NK
n.kuuselaTL2 Moderator9 May 2025#2

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

24 likes 15mo
DO
dr_okonkwoTL4 Moderator13 May 2025#3
GDashwood, post #1: On the subject in the title: Semaglutide versus liraglutide head to head: reading STEP 8 carefully Working notes rather than a conclusion. I have seen PIONEER 6 ( N Engl J Med , 2019) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows. My reading is that the… Go to post

Is there a ceiling dose beyond which the effect plateaus? The trials did not study that because they stopped at 2.4 mg. Some people report trying higher doses, but trial data is absent and off-label dosing enters territory this site does not advise on.

0 likes in reply to #1 15mo
JF
j.fonsecaTL2 Moderator17 May 2025#4

Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together.

The 165 to 184 hour range: that is roughly 7 to 7.6 days, which is why the weekly schedule works. Below 4 half-lives you are not approaching steady state yet, which is the pharmacological argument for the four-week step interval.

1 like 14mo
DS
dr_seongTL3Physician20 May 2025#5

Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

16 likes 14mo
RF
ro.friskTL2 Moderator23 May 2025 · edited#6
dr_seong, post #5: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the… Go to post

Coming back to post #4, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

The mass figure differs between sources because of how the different entities report it. The monoisotopic mass of the bare peptide is one number; the mass including the acylation is another. Different sources emphasise different details.

32 likes in reply to #5 14mo
OO
orbitrap_olaTL3Mass spectrometrist26 May 2025#7
GDashwood, post #1: On the subject in the title: Semaglutide versus liraglutide head to head: reading STEP 8 carefully Working notes rather than a conclusion. I have seen PIONEER 6 ( N Engl J Med , 2019) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows. My reading is that the… Go to post

The STEP programme populations were selected: enrollment criteria required baseline body mass index over 30, no recent blood pressure crisis, no recent retinopathy, no renal disease at the time. Applying results from that population to someone well outside it is an extrapolation and should be called one.

0 likes in reply to #1 14mo
PM
p.mwangiTL2 Moderator29 May 2025#8

Gastric emptying delay is the mechanism behind most of the gastrointestinal side effects. Slowing the stomach empties it feeds less food into the intestines at a time, which is part of the satiety mechanism but is also why nausea is dose-dependent and titration-dependent.

3 likes 14mo
HE
h.eriksenTL2 Moderator1 Jun 2025#9

The SELECT trial changed the positioning because it was the first cardiovascular outcome trial in people without diabetes. That decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glycaemic control, which is why it mattered beyond its own numbers.

23 likes 14mo
CL
c.lundgrenTL2 Moderator4 Jun 2025#10
dr_seong, post #5: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the… Go to post

I read post #8 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the comparison, not a confounding variable to be removed.

0 likes in reply to #5 14mo
GC
glossary_checkTL2Member7 Jun 2025#11

Worth separating two things that post #7 runs together.

The C-cell question: semaglutide triggered medullary thyroid carcinoma in rodent toxicology studies. A signal in rodents does not automatically appear in humans, but it is the reason the compound is contraindicated in people with personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2.

2 likes 14mo
AK
an.kirchnerTL2 Moderator9 Jun 2025#12

Albumin binding is not a unique structural feature and nothing in the class lacks it, but the reversibility matters. Semaglutide binds albumin covalently through a fatty side chain, which creates a very long half-life at the cost of sequestering the free form. That is a trade-off and it is the trade-off that allows weekly dosing.

0 likes 14mo
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member12 Jun 2025#13
h.eriksen, post #9: The SELECT trial changed the positioning because it was the first cardiovascular outcome trial in people without diabetes. That decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glycaemic control, which is why it mattered beyond its own numbers. Go to post

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

20 likes in reply to #9 14mo
SP
s.perrinTL2 Moderator14 Jun 2025#14
orbitrap_ola, post #7: The STEP programme populations were selected: enrollment criteria required baseline body mass index over 30, no recent blood pressure crisis, no recent retinopathy, no renal disease at the time. Applying results from that population to someone well outside it is an extrapolation and should be called one. Go to post

The opalescent appearance in semaglutide solutions is occasionally noted and the mechanism is unclear. It does not appear to correlate with product failure in practice. Visible particles or frank cloudiness is different and would be reason to contact the supplier.

9 likes in reply to #7 13mo
GF
gradient_fileTL2Member17 Jun 2025#15

On alcohol: the labelling does not contraindicate it, but it raises gastric irritation risk and semaglutide already does that. There is no published interaction study and the conservative position is to limit it if you are titrating or if gastrointestinal symptoms are troublesome.

0 likes 13mo
SK
s.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator19 Jun 2025#16

Albumin binding is not a unique structural feature and nothing in the class lacks it, but the reversibility matters. Semaglutide binds albumin covalently through a fatty side chain, which creates a very long half-life at the cost of sequestering the free form. That is a trade-off and it is the trade-off that allows weekly dosing.

0 likes 13mo
W
WoodhouseTL2Member22 Jun 2025#17

On alcohol: the labelling does not contraindicate it, but it raises gastric irritation risk and semaglutide already does that. There is no published interaction study and the conservative position is to limit it if you are titrating or if gastrointestinal symptoms are troublesome.

14 likes 13mo
FE
f.espinozaTL2 Moderator24 Jun 2025#18
c.lundgren, post #10: I read post #8 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the… Go to post

Picking up post #15: that is the part I would want checked first.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

5 likes in reply to #10 13mo
M
MakinenTL2Member27 Jun 2025#19

Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the comparison, not a confounding variable to be removed.

8 likes 13mo
SR
s.radichTL2 Moderator29 Jun 2025#20

post #19 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

The SELECT trial changed the positioning because it was the first cardiovascular outcome trial in people without diabetes. That decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glycaemic control, which is why it mattered beyond its own numbers.

2 likes 13mo
AC
a.cabreraTL2 Moderator1 Jul 2025#21

The opalescent appearance in semaglutide solutions is occasionally noted and the mechanism is unclear. It does not appear to correlate with product failure in practice. Visible particles or frank cloudiness is different and would be reason to contact the supplier.

0 likes 13mo
EF
erratum_fileTL3Regular4 Jul 2025 · edited#22

Approved indications differ by jurisdiction and change. As of mid-2026 the weight-management indication is approved in many European jurisdictions but not all, and access is still narrower in others. For your own region, check the regulatory website rather than a forum summary.

4 likes 13mo
IG
i.grimaldiTL2 Moderator6 Jul 2025#23
dr_seong, post #5: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the… Go to post

Picking up post #20: that is the part I would want checked first.

The C-cell question: semaglutide triggered medullary thyroid carcinoma in rodent toxicology studies. A signal in rodents does not automatically appear in humans, but it is the reason the compound is contraindicated in people with personal or family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2.

13 likes in reply to #5 13mo
R
RidgewayTL3Regular8 Jul 2025#24

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

27 likes 13mo
ZA
z.adeyemiTL2 Moderator10 Jul 2025#25

Is there a ceiling dose beyond which the effect plateaus? The trials did not study that because they stopped at 2.4 mg. Some people report trying higher doses, but trial data is absent and off-label dosing enters territory this site does not advise on.

2 likes 13mo
EL
endpoint_lineTL3Regular13 Jul 2025#26

The 165 to 184 hour range: that is roughly 7 to 7.6 days, which is why the weekly schedule works. Below 4 half-lives you are not approaching steady state yet, which is the pharmacological argument for the four-week step interval.

8 likes 13mo
IG
in.guerreroTL2 Moderator15 Jul 2025#27
dr_okonkwo, post #3: Is there a ceiling dose beyond which the effect plateaus? The trials did not study that because they stopped at 2.4 mg. Some people report trying higher doses, but trial data is absent and off-label dosing enters territory this site does not advise on. Go to post

This follows post #24 rather than contradicting it.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

19 likes in reply to #3 12mo
HN
h.nicolaidesTL3Regular17 Jul 2025#28
c.lundgren, post #10: I read post #8 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Semaglutide versus liraglutide in STEP 8: semaglutide produced greater weight reduction and the discontinuation rates differed. But the trial was open-label for the dosing schedule, which admits expectation effects. Weekly versus daily itself is part of the… Go to post

I read post #26 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

The mass figure differs between sources because of how the different entities report it. The monoisotopic mass of the bare peptide is one number; the mass including the acylation is another. Different sources emphasise different details.

0 likes in reply to #10 12mo
YI
y.ibarraTL2 Moderator19 Jul 2025 · edited#29

post #28 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

The STEP programme populations were selected: enrollment criteria required baseline body mass index over 30, no recent blood pressure crisis, no recent retinopathy, no renal disease at the time. Applying results from that population to someone well outside it is an extrapolation and should be called one.

4 likes 12mo
EN
electrolyte_notesTL2Regular21 Jul 2025#30
ro.frisk, post #6: Coming back to post #4, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. The mass figure differs between sources because of how the different entities report it. The monoisotopic mass of the bare peptide is one number; the mass including the acylation is another. Different sources emphasise different details. Go to post

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

12 likes in reply to #6 12mo