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Evidence · Preprints

When a preprint is the best available evidence and we say so

Solved
Solved by sourced_claims in post #8
Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

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C
chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist25 Jul 2025#1

When a preprint is the best available evidence and we say so — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked.

I have seen SURPASS-2 (N Engl J Med, 2021) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows.

My reading is that the trial is sound for its own question and is being stretched to answer a different one. I might be wrong about that, which is why this is a topic rather than a correction.

What I would like from this discussion: someone who disagrees with me to say why, with the section of the paper they are relying on.

0 likes 12mo
PN
priorauth_notesTL2Regular26 Jul 2025#2

Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together.

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

3 likes 12mo
MK
m.kjaerTL2 Moderator27 Jul 2025#3

This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it.

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

15 likes 12mo
M
microgramsTL2Regular27 Jul 2025#4
m.kjaer, post #3: This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it. Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting. Go to post

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

31 likes in reply to #3 12mo
JE
j.erdoganTL2 Moderator28 Jul 2025#5
priorauth_notes, post #2: Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together. Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect… Go to post

post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

1 like in reply to #2 12mo
NG
np_gilmoreTL3Nurse practitioner28 Jul 2025#6

On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

6 likes 12mo
MV
m.vukovicTL2 Moderator29 Jul 2025#7

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

22 likes 12mo
SC
sourced_claimsTL3Regular Solution29 Jul 2025#8

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

7 likes 12mo
MO
m.onwukaTL2 Moderator30 Jul 2025#9

post #8 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

3 likes 12mo
OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator30 Jul 2025#10

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

10 likes 12mo
YA
y.adeyemiTL2 Moderator30 Jul 2025#11

I read post #9 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

7 likes 12mo
MM
maintenance_modeTL3Regular31 Jul 2025#12

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

1 like 12mo
GR
g.radichTL2 Moderator31 Jul 2025#13

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

0 likes 12mo
TY
two_year_lineTL3Regular1 Aug 2025#14
m.kjaer, post #3: This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it. Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting. Go to post

post #13 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

23 likes in reply to #3 12mo
SK
s.kuuselaTL21 Aug 2025#15
B
batchlogTL3Regular1 Aug 2025#16

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

3 likes 12mo
DF
d.ferreiraTL2 Moderator2 Aug 2025#17
m.onwuka, post #9: post #8 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

On post #13 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

0 likes in reply to #9 12mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician2 Aug 2025#18
np_gilmore, post #6: On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished. Go to post

post #17 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

31 likes in reply to #6 12mo
NR
n.ramosTL2 Moderator3 Aug 2025#19

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

16 likes 12mo
S
SHermansenTL2Member3 Aug 2025#20

This follows post #17 rather than contradicting it.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

6 likes 12mo
NS
ni.stanescuTL2 Moderator3 Aug 2025#21

This follows post #18 rather than contradicting it.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

9 likes 12mo
AR
ambient_reviewTL3Regular4 Aug 2025#22
sourced_claims, post #8: Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists. Go to post

I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

21 likes in reply to #8 12mo
TT
t.tullochTL2 Moderator4 Aug 2025#23
s.kuusela, post #15: Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim. Go to post

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

0 likes in reply to #15 12mo
JH
j.habermannTL3Regular4 Aug 2025#24

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

2 likes 12mo
MA
m.agyemanTL2 Moderator5 Aug 2025 · edited#25

Picking up post #22: that is the part I would want checked first.

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

14 likes 12mo
NT
n.torrenceTL3Regular5 Aug 2025#26

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

28 likes 12mo
PO
pe.onwukaTL2 Moderator5 Aug 2025#27
ni.stanescu, post #21: This follows post #18 rather than contradicting it. Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Go to post

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes in reply to #21 12mo
ET
endpoint_traceTL1Member6 Aug 2025#28

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

5 likes 12mo
AL
a.lindqvistTL2 Moderator6 Aug 2025#29
owen.brady, post #10: Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised. Go to post

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

2 likes in reply to #10 12mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular6 Aug 2025#30
batchlog, post #16: Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

10 likes in reply to #16 12mo