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Outcomes · Body composition

Circumference measurements as a poor man's composition estimate

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Solved by crossref_check in post #2
DXA (dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry): the standard for body composition in research. Precision is roughly ±1 kg for lean mass. Two scans six months apart on the same machine with the same technician give you useful information. Two scans six weeks apart on different machines tell you about the machines.

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T
TavaresTL1Member14 Jul 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Circumference measurements as a poor man's composition estimate Everything below is what sits behind that.

Longitudinal report with the method stated, because a number without a method is not a measurement.

Same scale, same time of day, same conditions, 46 weeks. I have also recorded protein intake and resistance-training sessions, both self-reported and both therefore optimistic.

The reason I am posting is a pattern in the middle of the series that I cannot explain and that I suspect is measurement rather than signal.

6 likes 2y
CC
crossref_checkTL3Wiki editor Solution15 Jul 2024#2

DXA (dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry): the standard for body composition in research. Precision is roughly ±1 kg for lean mass. Two scans six months apart on the same machine with the same technician give you useful information. Two scans six weeks apart on different machines tell you about the machines.

10 likes 2y
ND
n.duarteTL2 Moderator16 Jul 2024#3
crossref_check, post #2: DXA (dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry): the standard for body composition in research. Precision is roughly ±1 kg for lean mass. Two scans six months apart on the same machine with the same technician give you useful information. Two scans six weeks apart on different machines tell you about the machines. Go to post

Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first.

Comparison to published data: the trials reported mean fat and lean mass changes. Individual results vary around that mean. Being above or below average is not a sign of something wrong.

30 likes in reply to #2 2y
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VPoulsenTL3Regular16 Jul 2024#4
Tavares, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Circumference measurements as a poor man's composition estimate Everything below is what sits behind that. Longitudinal report with the method stated, because a number without a method is not a measurement. Same scale, same time of day, same conditions, 46 weeks. I have also recorded protein… Go to post

Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Resting metabolic rate: body composition affects metabolic rate. As fat mass decreases and lean mass is maintained, metabolic rate is usually maintained better than with simple weight loss alone.

0 likes in reply to #1 2y
VB
v.bergstromTL2 Moderator17 Jul 2024#5

Changes during titration: measuring body composition during active titration is less useful than measuring after dose is stable. Titration causes fluid shifts that confound body composition.

1 like 2y
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r.jhannsdttirTL3Regular18 Jul 2024#6

Maintenance phase: tracking body composition during maintenance (weight stable) is different from tracking during active loss. Changes are smaller and precision becomes more important.

6 likes 2y
AV
a.vermeulenTL2 Moderator18 Jul 2024 · edited#7
v.bergstrom, post #5: Changes during titration: measuring body composition during active titration is less useful than measuring after dose is stable. Titration causes fluid shifts that confound body composition. Go to post

Precision versus accuracy: the precision you need depends on what question you are answering. "Am I losing fat?" requires less precision than "Is my lean mass preservation within the expected range?"

23 likes in reply to #5 2y
TK
t.kulkarniTL3Regular19 Jul 2024#8

I read post #6 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 2y
VK
v.kirchnerTL2 Moderator20 Jul 2024#9
Tavares, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Circumference measurements as a poor man's composition estimate Everything below is what sits behind that. Longitudinal report with the method stated, because a number without a method is not a measurement. Same scale, same time of day, same conditions, 46 weeks. I have also recorded protein… Go to post

post #8 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Bioelectric impedance analysis: less precise than DXA and strongly affected by hydration state. Not reliable for detecting month-to-month changes. Useful for trend over years if done consistently.

0 likes in reply to #1 2y
AF
a.finnegan_rdTL2Dietitian20 Jul 2024#10

Ultrasound: thickness of subcutaneous fat at specific sites. Less standardised than DXA and operator-dependent. Useful as a supplementary measure but not as a primary method.

3 likes 2y
MA
mi.amankwahTL2 Moderator21 Jul 2024 · edited#11
r.jhannsdttir, post #6: Maintenance phase: tracking body composition during maintenance (weight stable) is different from tracking during active loss. Changes are smaller and precision becomes more important. Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

2 likes in reply to #6 2y
AD
ambient_draftTL3Regular21 Jul 2024#12
v.bergstrom, post #5: Changes during titration: measuring body composition during active titration is less useful than measuring after dose is stable. Titration causes fluid shifts that confound body composition. Go to post

Lean mass loss during rapid weight reduction: depends on protein intake, resistance training volume, and total energy deficit. Adequate protein and maintaining training intensity both help preserve lean mass.

0 likes in reply to #5 2y
AK
ak.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator22 Jul 2024#13

On post #9 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Ultrasound: thickness of subcutaneous fat at specific sites. Less standardised than DXA and operator-dependent. Useful as a supplementary measure but not as a primary method.

29 likes 2y
TS
t.steenkampTL2Member23 Jul 2024#14

post #13 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Bioelectric impedance analysis: less precise than DXA and strongly affected by hydration state. Not reliable for detecting month-to-month changes. Useful for trend over years if done consistently.

14 likes 2y
AN
a.norgaardTL2 Moderator23 Jul 2024#15

I read post #13 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

DXA (dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry): the standard for body composition in research. Precision is roughly ±1 kg for lean mass. Two scans six months apart on the same machine with the same technician give you useful information. Two scans six weeks apart on different machines tell you about the machines.

1 like 2y
BR
buffer_reviewTL3Regular24 Jul 2024#16
v.bergstrom, post #5: Changes during titration: measuring body composition during active titration is less useful than measuring after dose is stable. Titration causes fluid shifts that confound body composition. Go to post

Visceral fat: DXA does not distinguish visceral (organ-associated) fat from subcutaneous fat. That distinction might matter but requires different imaging to measure.

0 likes in reply to #5 2y
AC
a.cardosoTL2 Moderator24 Jul 2024#17

Resting metabolic rate: body composition affects metabolic rate. As fat mass decreases and lean mass is maintained, metabolic rate is usually maintained better than with simple weight loss alone.

21 likes 2y
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LJankowiakTL3Regular25 Jul 2024#18

post #17 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

9 likes 2y
TM
t.marchettiTL2 Moderator25 Jul 2024#19
a.norgaard, post #15: I read post #13 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. DXA (dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry): the standard for body composition in research. Precision is roughly ±1 kg for lean mass. Two scans six months apart on the same machine with the same technician give you useful information. Two scans six weeks apart on… Go to post

Precision versus accuracy: the precision you need depends on what question you are answering. "Am I losing fat?" requires less precision than "Is my lean mass preservation within the expected range?"

9 likes in reply to #15 2y
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IHollingworthTL2Member26 Jul 2024 · edited#20

Picking up post #17: that is the part I would want checked first.

Lean mass loss during rapid weight reduction: depends on protein intake, resistance training volume, and total energy deficit. Adequate protein and maintaining training intensity both help preserve lean mass.

2 likes 2y
IA
id.almeidaTL2 Moderator26 Jul 2024#21

Changes during titration: measuring body composition during active titration is less useful than measuring after dose is stable. Titration causes fluid shifts that confound body composition.

17 likes 2y
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician27 Jul 2024#22

Maintenance phase: tracking body composition during maintenance (weight stable) is different from tracking during active loss. Changes are smaller and precision becomes more important.

0 likes 2y
NK
n.krastevTL2 Moderator27 Jul 2024#23

post #22 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Comparison to published data: the trials reported mean fat and lean mass changes. Individual results vary around that mean. Being above or below average is not a sign of something wrong.

1 like 2y
BD
baseline_driftTL2Analytical chemist28 Jul 2024#24
mi.amankwah, post #11: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

On post #20 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Lean mass loss during rapid weight reduction: depends on protein intake, resistance training volume, and total energy deficit. Adequate protein and maintaining training intensity both help preserve lean mass.

7 likes in reply to #11 2y
JP
j.petrovTL2 Moderator28 Jul 2024#25

Bioelectric impedance analysis: less precise than DXA and strongly affected by hydration state. Not reliable for detecting month-to-month changes. Useful for trend over years if done consistently.

12 likes 2y
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist28 Jul 2024#26

Ultrasound: thickness of subcutaneous fat at specific sites. Less standardised than DXA and operator-dependent. Useful as a supplementary measure but not as a primary method.

25 likes 2y
FK
f.kimaniTL2 Moderator29 Jul 2024#27
n.duarte, post #3: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. Comparison to published data: the trials reported mean fat and lean mass changes. Individual results vary around that mean. Being above or below average is not a sign of something wrong. Go to post

Visceral fat: DXA does not distinguish visceral (organ-associated) fat from subcutaneous fat. That distinction might matter but requires different imaging to measure.

0 likes in reply to #3 2y
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KLindqvistTL4 Moderator29 Jul 2024 · edited#28
a.finnegan_rd, post #10: Ultrasound: thickness of subcutaneous fat at specific sites. Less standardised than DXA and operator-dependent. Useful as a supplementary measure but not as a primary method. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #24 runs together.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

4 likes in reply to #10 2y
VN
v.nascimentoTL2 Moderator30 Jul 2024#29

Picking up post #26: that is the part I would want checked first.

Comparison to published data: the trials reported mean fat and lean mass changes. Individual results vary around that mean. Being above or below average is not a sign of something wrong.

7 likes 2y
LW
l.wikstromTL2 Moderator30 Jul 2024#30

Coming back to post #28, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Resting metabolic rate: body composition affects metabolic rate. As fat mass decreases and lean mass is maintained, metabolic rate is usually maintained better than with simple weight loss alone.

18 likes 2y