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Research Methods · Statistics · continued

Correlation in a self-tracked dataset: what it can support posts 121–150

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

JV
j.vogelTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#121

Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if you test many hypotheses, the chance of finding a false positive by random chance increases. That is why pre-specifying the primary hypothesis matters.

23 likes 23mo
TH
TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club25 Aug 2024#122
buffer_margin, post #44: Number needed to treat: how many people need to be treated to prevent one bad outcome or achieve one good outcome. More intuitive than relative risk reduction. Go to post

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes in reply to #44 23mo
HL
h.lindqvistTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#123

Picking up post #120: that is the part I would want checked first.

Relative risk and odds ratios: both compare the rate in one group to the rate in another. Relative risk is easier to understand. Odds ratios are standard in many analyses but can be misinterpreted.

1 like 23mo
AD
appeals_deskTL3Regular25 Aug 2024#124

Coming back to post #122, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Effect sizes: the magnitude of a difference, not just whether it is statistically significant. A difference that is significant (p<0.05) might be too small to matter. A large effect might not be significant if sample size is small.

6 likes 23mo
AK
a.kirchnerTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024 · edited#125
e.kuipers, post #4: Number needed to treat: how many people need to be treated to prevent one bad outcome or achieve one good outcome. More intuitive than relative risk reduction. Go to post

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

30 likes in reply to #4 23mo
LI
l.ibarraTL2Regular25 Aug 2024#126
policy_reader, post #32: On post #28 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Relative risk and odds ratios: both compare the rate in one group to the rate in another. Relative risk is easier to understand. Odds ratios are standard in many analyses but can be misinterpreted. Go to post

Relative risk and odds ratios: both compare the rate in one group to the rate in another. Relative risk is easier to understand. Odds ratios are standard in many analyses but can be misinterpreted.

0 likes in reply to #32 23mo
AD
a.delgadoTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#127

Confounding: a third variable explains an apparent association. In randomised data, randomisation balances confounders. In observational data, confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot.

3 likes 23mo
MH
m.haddadTL2Regular25 Aug 2024#128

I read post #126 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Regression to the mean: if you select people with extreme values (very high or very low), their next measurement is often less extreme just by chance. This can look like a treatment effect when it is just statistics.

10 likes 23mo
KM
k.marchandTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024 · edited#129
k.radich, post #119: Worth separating two things that post #115 runs together. Number needed to treat: how many people need to be treated to prevent one bad outcome or achieve one good outcome. More intuitive than relative risk reduction. Go to post

post #128 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Power and sample size: a study might be too small to detect a real effect (low power). Sample size calculations help determine how many participants are needed to detect an effect of a given magnitude.

0 likes in reply to #119 23mo
FT
fr.translation_moTL2Translator · FR25 Aug 2024#130

On post #126 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Effect sizes: the magnitude of a difference, not just whether it is statistically significant. A difference that is significant (p<0.05) might be too small to matter. A large effect might not be significant if sample size is small.

1 like 23mo
PN
p.novakTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024 · edited#131

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

15 likes 23mo
TK
t.kulkarniTL3Regular25 Aug 2024#132

This follows post #129 rather than contradicting it.

Number needed to treat: how many people need to be treated to prevent one bad outcome or achieve one good outcome. More intuitive than relative risk reduction.

5 likes 23mo
AV
a.vermeulenTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#133

Worth separating two things that post #129 runs together.

Absence of evidence and evidence of absence: if a study is small and finds no effect, that is absence of evidence, not evidence of absence. A larger study might find an effect that a small study missed.

1 like 23mo
RJ
r.jhannsdttirTL3Regular25 Aug 2024#134
f.rasmussen, post #31: post #30 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if you test many hypotheses, the chance of finding a false positive by random chance increases. That is why pre-specifying the primary hypothesis matters. Go to post

P-values and significance: p<0.05 means the data would be surprising if the null hypothesis were true, not that the null hypothesis is false. A non-significant p-value does not mean "no effect".

0 likes in reply to #31 23mo
HK
h.kimaniTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#135

Coming back to post #133, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Confidence intervals: rather than a single point estimate, a range of plausible values. A narrow interval means precise measurement; a wide interval means measurement is imprecise. Wider intervals (more uncertainty) are honest about limitation.

21 likes 23mo
B
BDraganovTL2Member25 Aug 2024#136

Picking up post #133: that is the part I would want checked first.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

9 likes 23mo
JP
j.palaciosTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#137

Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if you test many hypotheses, the chance of finding a false positive by random chance increases. That is why pre-specifying the primary hypothesis matters.

2 likes 23mo
HA
h.almeidaTL2Member25 Aug 2024#138
PSkarbek, post #46: Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up. Go to post

Confounding: a third variable explains an apparent association. In randomised data, randomisation balances confounders. In observational data, confounders can be adjusted for but unknown ones cannot.

0 likes in reply to #46 23mo
NC
n.chowdhuryTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#139
a.ibarra, post #110: I read post #108 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Regression to the mean: if you select people with extreme values (very high or very low), their next measurement is often less extreme just by chance. This can look like a treatment effect when it is just statistics. Go to post

Absence of evidence and evidence of absence: if a study is small and finds no effect, that is absence of evidence, not evidence of absence. A larger study might find an effect that a small study missed.

28 likes in reply to #110 23mo
IT
integrator_traceTL2Member25 Aug 2024#140

P-values and significance: p<0.05 means the data would be surprising if the null hypothesis were true, not that the null hypothesis is false. A non-significant p-value does not mean "no effect".

14 likes 23mo
ID
i.dumitruTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#141

Regression to the mean: if you select people with extreme values (very high or very low), their next measurement is often less extreme just by chance. This can look like a treatment effect when it is just statistics.

20 likes 23mo
EL
endpoint_lineTL3Regular25 Aug 2024#142
isotonic_sheet, post #56: I read post #54 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Absence of evidence and evidence of absence: if a study is small and finds no effect, that is absence of evidence, not evidence of absence. A larger study might find an effect that a small study missed. Go to post

Power and sample size: a study might be too small to detect a real effect (low power). Sample size calculations help determine how many participants are needed to detect an effect of a given magnitude.

0 likes in reply to #56 23mo
SD
s.demirTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#143

post #142 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Number needed to treat: how many people need to be treated to prevent one bad outcome or achieve one good outcome. More intuitive than relative risk reduction.

2 likes 23mo
OP
o.pasqualeTL1Member25 Aug 2024#144

Relative risk and odds ratios: both compare the rate in one group to the rate in another. Relative risk is easier to understand. Odds ratios are standard in many analyses but can be misinterpreted.

9 likes 23mo
PO
p.onwukaTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024 · edited#145

Effect sizes: the magnitude of a difference, not just whether it is statistically significant. A difference that is significant (p<0.05) might be too small to matter. A large effect might not be significant if sample size is small.

14 likes 23mo
LA
l.aaltonenTL325 Aug 2024#146
KK
k.karlsenTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2024#147

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes 23mo
HN
h.nicolaidesTL3Regular25 Aug 2024#148

Multiplicity and multiple comparisons: if you test many hypotheses, the chance of finding a false positive by random chance increases. That is why pre-specifying the primary hypothesis matters.

5 likes 23mo
WM
w.moreauTL2 Moderator26 Aug 2024#149

Picking up post #146: that is the part I would want checked first.

Number needed to treat: how many people need to be treated to prevent one bad outcome or achieve one good outcome. More intuitive than relative risk reduction.

0 likes 23mo
Z
ZieglerTL3Regular26 Aug 2024#150

Coming back to post #148, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Relative risk and odds ratios: both compare the rate in one group to the rate in another. Relative risk is easier to understand. Odds ratios are standard in many analyses but can be misinterpreted.

0 likes 23mo