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Analytics · Mass spectrometry · continued

Why mass spectrometry cannot tell you about an epimer posts 61–83

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

SS
s.solbergTL2 Moderator17 Feb 2025#61

On post #57 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

23 likes 17mo
VK
v.klausenTL3Regular18 Feb 2025#62

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

10 likes 17mo
LF
l.ferreiraTL2 Moderator19 Feb 2025#63
v.bruun, post #23: I read post #21 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers). Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

3 likes in reply to #23 17mo
HK
h.koodziejTL2Member20 Feb 2025#64

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

0 likes 17mo
PF
p.friskTL2 Moderator21 Feb 2025#65

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

31 likes 17mo
VM
v.milanoviTL3Regular22 Feb 2025#66

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

16 likes 17mo
HF
h.fonsecaTL2 Moderator23 Feb 2025#67
k.perrin, post #31: Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size. Go to post

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

6 likes in reply to #31 17mo
ID
integrator_draftTL3Regular24 Feb 2025#68

This follows post #65 rather than contradicting it.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

1 like 17mo
JC
j.castellanosTL2 Moderator25 Feb 2025#69

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

0 likes 17mo
JS
j.sorensenTL226 Feb 2025#70
L
LJankowiakTL3Regular27 Feb 2025 · edited#71
n.okwuosa, post #4: Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers). Go to post

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

33 likes in reply to #4 17mo
NL
ne.laurentTL2 Moderator28 Feb 2025#72
m.amankwah, post #20: On post #16 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. Go to post

Coming back to post #70, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes in reply to #20 17mo
AD
ambient_draftTL3Regular1 Mar 2025#73

post #72 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

3 likes 17mo
MA
mi.amankwahTL2 Moderator1 Mar 2025#74

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

11 likes 17mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular2 Mar 2025#75

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

0 likes 17mo
FN
f.novakTL2 Moderator3 Mar 2025#76
crossover_review, post #13: Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass. Go to post

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

1 like in reply to #13 17mo
BR
buffer_reviewTL3Regular4 Mar 2025#77

post #76 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

7 likes 17mo
AN
a.norgaardTL2 Moderator5 Mar 2025#78

Worth separating two things that post #74 runs together.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

17 likes 17mo
TN
t.ndiayeTL2 Moderator6 Mar 2025#79
m.amankwah, post #20: On post #16 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. Go to post

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

0 likes in reply to #20 17mo
AF
a.friskTL2 Moderator7 Mar 2025 · edited#80

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

3 likes 17mo
N
NorringtonTL3Regular8 Mar 2025#81

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes 17mo
JM
j.marchettiTL2 Moderator9 Mar 2025#82

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

20 likes 17mo
FR
figure_reviewTL29 Mar 2025#83

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