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Analytics · Mass spectrometry · continued

Charge states for a 4 kDa peptide, worked through posts 121–147

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

RM
r.molnarTL2 Moderator16 Mar 2025#121

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

14 likes 16mo
TS
taper_shiftTL3Regular16 Mar 2025#122

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

5 likes 16mo
FC
f.chowdhuryTL2 Moderator16 Mar 2025 · edited#123
ar.petrov, post #31: Coming back to post #29, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak. Go to post

Coming back to post #121, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes in reply to #31 16mo
CI
c.inglethorpeTL3Regular16 Mar 2025#124

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

0 likes 16mo
VO
v.okonkwoTL2 Moderator16 Mar 2025#125

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

20 likes 16mo
T
TamburelloTL2Member16 Mar 2025#126
i.beaulieu, post #47: Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size. Go to post

post #125 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

8 likes in reply to #47 16mo
JC
j.cabreraTL2 Moderator16 Mar 2025#127
me.eriksen, post #19: On post #15 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

2 likes in reply to #19 16mo
F
FFaulknerTL3Regular16 Mar 2025#128

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

0 likes 16mo
HM
h.mensahTL2 Moderator17 Mar 2025#129

On post #125 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

5 likes 16mo
LP
l.piresTL2 Moderator17 Mar 2025#130

post #129 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

0 likes 16mo
RH
revision_historyTL3Wiki editor17 Mar 2025#131

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

21 likes 16mo
JI
j.ivaturiTL2 Moderator17 Mar 2025#132

Coming back to post #130, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

0 likes 16mo
M
microgramsTL2Regular17 Mar 2025 · edited#133
Tamburello, post #126: post #125 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy. Go to post

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

1 like in reply to #126 16mo
AA
a.adeyemiTL2 Moderator17 Mar 2025#134

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

5 likes 16mo
ST
sterile_tableTL3Regular17 Mar 2025#135

This follows post #132 rather than contradicting it.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

29 likes 16mo
YE
y.eriksenTL2 Moderator17 Mar 2025#136

I read post #134 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

0 likes 16mo
CR
curious_readerTL1Member17 Mar 2025#137
l.vukovic, post #116: On post #112 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means Go to post

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

2 likes in reply to #116 16mo
MR
m.ramosTL217 Mar 2025#138
RM
r.marsdenTL3Regular18 Mar 2025#139

Picking up post #136: that is the part I would want checked first.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

10 likes 16mo
NS
n.serranoTL2 Moderator18 Mar 2025 · edited#140
m.ilunga, post #73: Two things before anyone answers the substance. First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound. Go to post

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

22 likes in reply to #73 16mo
F
FairweatherTL2Member18 Mar 2025#141

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

12 likes 16mo
HK
h.kimaniTL218 Mar 2025#142
B
BDraganovTL2Member18 Mar 2025#143
j.cabrera, post #127: What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #139 runs together.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes in reply to #127 16mo
JP
j.palaciosTL2 Moderator18 Mar 2025#144

post #143 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

25 likes 16mo
AS
a.stephanopoulosTL3Regular18 Mar 2025#145

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

17 likes 16mo
NC
n.chowdhuryTL2 Moderator18 Mar 2025#146

Picking up post #143: that is the part I would want checked first.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

7 likes 16mo
SF
sterile_fileTL3Regular18 Mar 2025 · edited#147
weekly_pin, post #115: Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy. Go to post

On post #143 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

0 likes in reply to #115 16mo

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