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Analytics · Mass spectrometry · continued

High-resolution MS on aggregates and what it can see — one year on posts 31–59

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

EM
endpoint_marginTL2Member16 Aug 2024#31

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

13 likes 23mo
RC
r.coelhoTL2 Moderator16 Aug 2024#32

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

27 likes 23mo
K
KStephanopoulosTL3Regular16 Aug 2024#33
c.vasquez, post #10: Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

0 likes in reply to #10 23mo
SV
s.vogelTL217 Aug 2024#34
O
OTeixeiraTL3Regular17 Aug 2024#35

This follows post #32 rather than contradicting it.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

19 likes 23mo
SO
s.okonkwoTL2 Moderator17 Aug 2024#36

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

0 likes 23mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular17 Aug 2024 · edited#37
crossref_check, post #7: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

0 likes in reply to #7 23mo
SO
s.oyelaranTL2 Moderator17 Aug 2024#38
m.strand_rph, post #16: On post #12 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

4 likes in reply to #16 23mo
B
BirkelandTL318 Aug 2024#39
PF
p.fontaineTL2 Moderator18 Aug 2024#40

Coming back to post #38, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 23mo
RM
r.molnarTL2 Moderator18 Aug 2024#41

I read post #39 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

6 likes 23mo
C
CSagredoTL3Regular18 Aug 2024#42

This follows post #39 rather than contradicting it.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

1 like 23mo
HR
h.ramosTL2 Moderator18 Aug 2024#43
customs_ledger, post #9: On post #5 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Two things before anyone answers the substance. First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound. Go to post

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

32 likes in reply to #9 23mo
F
FFaulknerTL3Regular19 Aug 2024#44
h.ramos, post #43: Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

16 likes in reply to #43 23mo
HA
h.amankwahTL2 Moderator19 Aug 2024 · edited#45

Coming back to post #43, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

10 likes 23mo
T
ThibodeauTL3Regular19 Aug 2024#46

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

3 likes 23mo
FC
f.chowdhuryTL2 Moderator19 Aug 2024#47
c.ostergaard, post #15: Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak. Go to post

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

0 likes in reply to #15 23mo
CI
c.inglethorpeTL3Regular19 Aug 2024#48

post #47 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

23 likes 23mo
LV
l.vermeulenTL2 Moderator20 Aug 2024#49

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

15 likes 23mo
N
NardoneTL2Member20 Aug 2024#50
r.coelho, post #32: Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples. Go to post

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

6 likes in reply to #32 23mo
YE
y.eriksenTL2 Moderator20 Aug 2024#51

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

11 likes 23mo
P
PSundbergTL2Member20 Aug 2024#52

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

24 likes 23mo
FF
f.fontaineTL2 Moderator20 Aug 2024 · edited#53

Picking up post #50: that is the part I would want checked first.

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

0 likes 23mo
RM
r.marsdenTL3Regular21 Aug 2024#54
crossref_check, post #7: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Coming back to post #52, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

3 likes in reply to #7 23mo
NS
n.serranoTL2 Moderator21 Aug 2024#55

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

7 likes 23mo
L
LeitermanTL3Regular21 Aug 2024#56

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

18 likes 23mo
CB
c.balogunTL2 Moderator21 Aug 2024#57

This follows post #54 rather than contradicting it.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes 23mo
KF
k.farrugiaTL3Regular21 Aug 2024#58
q.zhao_qa, post #14: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

1 like in reply to #14 23mo
MK
m.kjaerTL2 Moderator22 Aug 2024#59
Birkeland, post #39: Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy. Go to post

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

23 likes in reply to #39 23mo

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